What working with psychopaths taught me about leadership

[Music]

i don’t want to freak you all out

when i tell you this but none of us here

is authentic

we’re all a little fake we’re not 100

authentic pinch yourself

just to check to see if you’re real but

i’m going to be talking about a

different kind of authentic

the kind of authentic which is about how

we show up our true selves

to other people and what i’m going to do

today is i’m going to share with you

what i learned about being authentic

from working with psychopaths

and how i then use that in my work with

leaders later on

now the psychological research backs up

what i’m about to tell you

which is that being less than 100

authentic

is probably a good thing and it might

even save your life

let me tell you about a time when it

probably saved mine

so picture this i’m sitting in a room

and actually it’s a prison cell

to be precise it’s a maximum security

prison cell

with bars on the windows big heavy iron

doors

the room is quite bare and i’m wearing a

belt

with keys which allow me to go in and

out of this room quite freely

i’m sitting in this room with a man in

his late 50s

who is a psychopath and he’s been

incarcerated for many many years

for killing three people

two were his girlfriends and one

was his closest male friend now it’s

safe to say

he had issues with relationships

and particularly when they didn’t go his

way

so back to me sitting in the room with

this psychopath and i’m there because

i’m a clinical and forensic psychologist

and i’m there to carry out a risk

assessment

i need to figure out the likelihood of

him killing again

and for that i need information from him

i need to know how well had he planned

these murders

were they triggered by revenge or power

or hate or control

and how would we know now you can

imagine he wasn’t very motivated to

share that information

with me i mean he was locked up and i

had all the power with the keys

literally to his freedom and i wasn’t

going to be able to trick him or

manipulate him into giving me that

information either

because psychopaths by the nature of

well

very good at manipulation and he would

have seen it coming

so actually i was going to have to

motivate him to give me that information

i was going to have to build rapport

build trust

be authentic encourage him to share the

details of what he had done

now to do that i did three things the

first thing i did

was i stayed within the role i was

there for and the permissions of it and

what that means is

i was there as a psychologist to do a

job i wasn’t there as a friend

i wasn’t there as judge or jury there to

criticize or punish

and so i made very clear the

expectations from my side

on my role in the work i needed to do

and i stayed within those boundaries

the second thing i did was i was

prepared

i did my research it’s a very good idea

if you’re going to walk into a room with

a psychopath to be prepared

and know who you’re about to face so

before i walked in i checked out what

kind of day he was having

had he had any bad news

was he in a bad mood and how did he feel

about talking to a psychologist

about all the things that he’d done most

importantly

i checked where the exit was in the room

so i could get out quickly if i needed

to

the third thing i did was i remained

curious

even when i was challenging him or felt

challenged

i mean he was a pretty unlikable person

so you can imagine some of the thoughts

that were going through my mind

but it wouldn’t have been wise for me to

start saying some of those things that

were on my mind like

oh my goodness how could you do such

terrible things and what about the poor

victims and oh

that sounds gruesome so

i stayed curious i framed my questions

and responses carefully

to test hypotheses to make sure i didn’t

share assumptions

to gather the information i needed

was i authentic yeah

what kind of not if being authentic

means that you’re 100

honest at all times i mean i had to

think about what i was wearing

where i sat what questions to ask

how not to give away all the thoughts i

was having in my facial expressions of

my body language

so if being authentic is being a hundred

percent honest or brutally honest

no i wasn’t

and so what i had to do was think about

what being brutally honest would have

done had i shared all those things that

were on my mind

i mean let’s face it his brutal honesty

had resulted in the death of three

people

i didn’t particularly wanted to trigger

that

and if i’d been brutally honest i

probably would have killed a

conversation

close down the things that he i needed

him to share with me

and so what i did was i was

authentic but with empathy

and what that meant was i put myself in

his shoes and thought about

what it must be like to sit with

somebody and have to share the details

of your past

and what you had done and i stayed

curious

whilst i was showing empathy but let me

be clear

showing empathy doesn’t mean that you

agree with what has been done

i wasn’t sympathizing with him or

condoning what he had done

because empathy is not agreement it’s

about understanding

and so by showing empathy i was able to

get an understanding

and through several meetings over many

months

i managed to figure out what had

triggered those attacks

to prevent them from happening again and

he was able

to share openly with me some of the

experiences he had had that had led him

up to those actions

we call that psychological safety

as therapists when we sit and create a

safe space where somebody can share

openly without fear of criticism or

judgment

we call that psychological safety and

that was important

in our relationship to get the work done

and so after many months i completed my

risk assessment

and i was able to walk out of that room

closing the door behind me and i walked

out alive

because i was authentic with empathy

fast forward and i’m working as

a leader and a leadership coach in

business

now some of you might be thinking what

can working with psychopaths possibly

have to do with leadership

although some of you might be thinking i

know the answer to that

well in leadership we talk a lot

nowadays about leaders needing to be

authentic

they need to show up as their true

selves they need to be more open

they need to be more vulnerable well

i’ve seen some leaders using being

authentic and being their real selves

as an excuse to be what i call brutal

brutal honesty and i’ll hear them saying

things like you know nashville it’s just

me

this is me you want me to be authentic

right

and there are essentially two kinds of

leaders that i came across in my work

those that were able to create the

psychological safety i had seen

when i was working with psychopaths

where they had teams that trusted each

other and they

collaborated and they shared and they

seemed to have fun and

they could even disagree and still keep

going and the relationships remained

positive and intact and then there was a

second group of leaders

who didn’t manage to do that and you

could tell because the teams well they

whispered behind closed doors

they didn’t have that trust between them

they didn’t like to share or collaborate

and they certainly were fearful perhaps

even mistrusting

of being negatively criticized by the

leader or by each other

and so in my work with this second group

of leaders

i asked them what impact they thought

they were having in the way they were

approaching their teams

and of course the first thing you would

typically hear was

you know nashville it’s not me it’s them

if i had smarter people i’d be a much

better leader

and so i explored the kinds of

conversations they were having

with their team and i made the same

observations that this brutal honesty

this i’m just being myself but giving

unfiltered criticism or micromanaging

shouting perhaps or even you know the

red pen all over the

the memo ignoring perhaps your messages

and mails

sitting behind computers when you’re

talking all these behaviors

were ways of in a way being brutal

in your feedback to your team members

and what i shared with them was you know

what if that’s being you

authentic you it’s not working for your

team

you’re brutal honesty is

actually killing the team’s motivation

their trust in you and their cooperation

and so i began to think some of the

things that i’d learned about being

authentic with empathy

rather than being brutal in my

authenticity

might be helpful to these leaders and so

i shared three things i encourage them

to do

the first was know your role and stay

within the boundaries of that

you are there as a leader you’re not

there as a friend

you’re not there to criticize or punish

it’s important that you’re clear about

your expectations and you have a

conversation with your team members

about

the boundaries of those expectations the

second thing i encouraged them to do

was to be prepared and do their research

to know their team members much more

than just the tasks

and the activities they were involved in

together what drives this

person what motivates them what makes

them want to work

in this company or with you in doing so

you’re able to hook into

the other person’s desire or motivation

to do their work and to perform

the third thing i encourage these

leaders to do

was to remain curious even when they

felt challenged

because they would often say that they

felt they had people who were

incompetent or

who were resistant to change or pushing

back on the agenda that they had

sometimes they just didn’t like members

of their team

and so i suggested they remained curious

rather than being judgmental or critical

and so my feedback to these leaders was

well

being authentic isn’t an excuse to be

brutal or careless

you can be authentic but you can do so

with empathy

we all do it all the time take for

example a friend who has a bad haircut

and asks you what you think and you’ve

probably heard yourself saying

yeah it’s very you do you like it

i mean you’re not being a hundred

percent authentic and honest

by telling them you don’t because you

want to save their feelings you care

about them

so you’re showing empathy so we can do

it and we actually do it all the time

and so the message to leaders is in

order to be authentic

you don’t have to be 100 honest and

brutal with it at all times

and so what i learned from working with

psychopaths

was that being authentic comes in many

shapes and forms

and we don’t need to be brutal to be

authentic

brutal authenticity kills

conversations kills connections kills

motivation

and kills trust whereas being authentic

with empathy

encourages openness encourages

conversation

and builds trust and so my message to

you today as you leave this room

is think about that think about the

connections that you’re building

think about the role that you play

within those connections

and think about the impact that you want

to have

you can be authentic but be authentic

with empathy

it might just save your relationships

both at home

your reputation at work and one day

it might even save your life thank you

you