The real reason you procrastinate WorkLife with Adam Grant Audio only

Transcriber: Erin Gregory
Reviewer: Krystian Aparta

Margaret Atwood:
It’s like going into a very cold lake

when you’ve decided
you’re going to go swimming in it.

Adam Grant: This is how one famous
writer describes procrastination.

MA: You put your foot in, you take it out.

You put it in again …

It’s still too cold. (Laughs)

You think, “Am I going to do this or not?
Am I really going to do this?”

No, yes, no, yes.

That goes on for a while.

If you’re going to do it,
you run in screaming.

AG: So says Margaret Atwood.

She’s best known as the acclaimed author
of “The Handmaid’s Tale”

and has sold many millions of books.

But you might not know

that she’s also a self-proclaimed
world expert on procrastination.

MA: Yeah, I’ve racked up,
you know, years and years of it.

AG: Because Margaret
doesn’t do anything halfway.

MA: If you’re going to do something,
might as well be good at it, right?

I’d hate to be a failed procrastinator.

(Both laugh)

(Music)

AG: She can procrastinate anywhere
with the greatest of ease.

At home, in a coffee shop,
even up in the air.

MA: I think it’s always more fun
to watch movies on planes than to work.

(Both laugh)

A film called “Captain Underpants”
was on the menu.

So I was watching “Captain Underpants,”
which well repaid my time.

And then the plane landed
and I forgot that my computer was on it

and did not tell my publishers

that I had left this computer
with all of this correspondence

about the heavily embargoed novel,
“The Testaments,” on the plane.

AG: Oh my gosh.

MA: Yeah, it was very bad.

I won’t do it again soon.

AG: But here’s the thing.

Despite being a world-class
procrastinator,

Margaret does not turn
manuscripts in late.

MA: No, no, no, no, no.

I do not miss deadlines.

I would consider it
dishonorable to miss a deadline.

AG: How does she manage
her procrastination so productively?

And can you?

(Music)

I’m Adam Grant and this is WorkLife,
my podcast with TED.

I’m an organizational psychologist.

I study how to make work not suck.

In this show,

I’m inviting myself inside the minds
of some truly unusual people,

because they’ve mastered something
I wish everyone knew about work.

(Music)

Today, procrastination,

and why it’s not as much
of a character flaw

or as impossible to
overcome as you might think.

(Music)

Thanks to Hilton
for sponsoring this episode.

(Music)

(Music fades out)

Procrastination
is intentionally delaying a task

that needs to be done

even though you know
it will come with a cost.

Instead of working,

you might find yourself
watching cat videos on YouTube,

looking in your fridge

to see if something new has magically
appeared in the last 10 minutes,

or deciding your productivity problem
is that you type too slow,

then taking a typing test online
to confirm your suspicion,

and then taking it over
and over to get a better score.

If you’re like most people,

you first became acquainted
with procrastination in school.

Somewhere between 80 and 95 percent
of students procrastinate.

And half of them do it chronically.

But it doesn’t just
disappear when you graduate.

About 15 to 20 percent of adults
are chronic procrastinators.

I’m not one of them.

I’m the opposite, a precrastinator,

someone who feels pressure
to start tasks immediately

and finish them ahead of schedule.

Although I did get sucked
into that typing test.

(Music)

But if a task is important,
I tend to get it done before the deadline.

And my colleagues tell me
that can be annoying.

I’m constantly late to meetings.

My excuse? “I was busy finishing
another project early.”

(Music)

So I’m pretty fascinated
by chronic procrastinators,

who live on the opposite extreme.

Like Douglas Adams, who wrote
“The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.”

On a typical writing day,
he would sit in the bath for hours,

waiting for an idea to come.

By the time he got out and got dressed,
he often forgot the idea,

which would lead him
right back to the bathtub.

It was so bad that he once had his editor

lock him in a hotel suite
for several weeks.

One that presumably only had a shower.

(Music)

Writers are legendary procrastinators.

The question is why.

And Margaret Atwood has an answer.

MA: I see myself as lazy.

AG: If you’re a procrastinator,

you might have said
the same thing about yourself.

Lazy, slacker, undisciplined.

But is Margaret Atwood,

bestselling author of
dozens of books, really lazy?

Fuschia Sirois: No, no.

That’s one of the common
myths about procrastination,

it’s just people being lazy.

AG: Fuschia Sirois
is a psychologist in the UK.

Her specialty is studying procrastination,

and she knows that the root
of procrastination

is actually something
far sneakier than laziness.

It’s not about avoiding work.

It’s about avoiding feelings.

More specifically, negative emotions.

FS: We say at the core,
procrastination is about mood regulation.

So a task may elicit lack of confidence,

feelings of incompetency,

insecurity, fear of failure, anxiety.

You put that task aside,
and you’ve just regulated your mood.

Now you feel better.
It’s like, “Ah, great.

I don’t have to think about it.”

AG: You know more about this than most.

Do you still procrastinate?

FS: Yeah well, you know,
I’m human so yeah, I do procrastinate.

The classic thing for me is, you know,
I’ve got this paper to write.

And I’m thinking,
this is going to be really hard.

And I build it up
into something that’s really huge.

And you know, after a couple
of days of that,

I just kind of go,
“Right, I’m procrastinating.

I’ve just got to get on with this.”

AG: Everyone procrastinates on something.

If you’re on top of your work,

there’s probably still a task
you’re delaying,

even though you know it comes at a cost.

FS: You’ve got to buy
a present for your aunt

that you only see once
a year, for example.

And she tends to be really picky.

And so now you’re thinking,

“Oh, if I make a mistake, she’s just going
to give me that look.” (Laughs)

AG: This doesn’t sound
like a hypothetical example.

(Fuschia laughs)

AG: I’m not going to ask you
to name your aunt, but …

(Both laugh)

AG: If you still think you’re just lazy,
here’s some proof.

Take a look at what you do
while you’re procrastinating.

Some of those tasks actually take
a lot of energy and effort.

FS: You’ll see some, you know,
classic chronic procrastinators.

They will have the neatest houses.

Everything will be organized.
All the dishes will be done.

Everything will be clean.

But the big looming task
that they’re supposed to be doing

isn’t being done.

AG: If you’re actively
doing something else,

it’s pretty clear that you’re not lazy.

You’re avoiding a task
that stirs up negative emotions.

And that can have consequences.

At work, chronic procrastinators
are less productive than their peers.

And their health suffers for it.

FS: If you’re a chronic procrastinator,

you have higher levels of stress.

You have poor sleep quality.

You tend to not exercise as much.

You might eat more junk food,
especially because you’re stressed.

If you’re a chronic procrastinator,
you’ve got difficulty regulating yourself.

AG: Which can lead
to depression and anxiety.

FS: They actually put off seeking help
for those mental health issues,

which doesn’t help either.

AG: Oh no, so they meta-procrastinate.

FS: Yes, definitely.

People feel guilty
when they procrastinate.

But that guilt doesn’t operate
in the same way

that it does for most people.

Guilt could be a motivating emotion.

AG: Yeah, it’s like the Erma Bombeck line

that guilt is the gift
that keeps on giving.

FS: Yeah, well, for procrastinators,

what it gives is more procrastination.

AG: Ah, so unfair.

Even if you’re not
a chronic procrastinator,

there are certain types of tasks
that you might have a habit of postponing.

FS: Might be a procrastinogenic
environment because …

(Adam laughs)

AG: Did you say “procrastinogenic?”

FS: Yes, procrastinogenic.
AG: What a great phrase.

(Fuschia laughs)

FS: Well, it’s an environment
that can evoke procrastination.

AG: I am absolutely
using this as an excuse.

It’s not me, it’s not
that I lack willpower.

This is just a very procrastinogenic task.

FS: Yeah, tasks
that don’t give you autonomy,

that lack structure,

and that are ambiguous.

AG: Is that why so many writers
struggle with procrastination?

FS: It could be.

Because yeah, when you’re writing,

who’s telling you what the next thing is

you’re supposed to be
writing, right? You are.

I mean, it brings up uncertainty
about yourself.

It brings up doubts about whether
you know what you’re doing, right?

We all have that feeling
from time to time.

(Music)

AG: You might find yourself
procrastinating to avoid anxiety,

confusion or boredom.

Whichever your flavor of procrastination,

psychology points
to a couple ways to curb it.

For one, you can start by trying to be
a little kinder to yourself

about your past procrastination.

Yep, this actually makes a difference.

FS: Our emotions can actually change
the way we view the task.

AG: Instead of beating yourself up,
show yourself a little compassion.

Relieve the guilt.

Research reveals
that after students put off

studying for an exam,

those who forgive themselves

are actually less likely to procrastinate
on preparing for the next test.

Fuschia and her colleagues have found
that it helps to remind yourself

that you’re not the only one
suffering from procrastination.

It’s part of the human condition.

Everyone does it on occasion.

FS: Sometimes I will just
sort of step back and go, “Yep, yep.

I’m just being like every other
procrastinator in the planet.”

And you’re acknowledging
what you’re doing,

accepting responsibility for it.

But you’re not feeding back
into the negative emotions

that probably put you in that place

where you wanted
to procrastinate in the first place.

AG: It turns out that self-compassion
is especially hard

if you’re a neurotic perfectionist,

the kind of person
who constantly beats yourself up

for never doing work that’s good enough.

If that’s you,

you might take a cue
from productive perfectionists

and stop judging your work
before you’ve even produced it.

In other words,

don’t criticize yourself
while you’re creating.

Try waiting until you’ve finished
developing your ideas

before you worry about evaluating them.

That’s something Margaret Atwood advises.

MA: The wastepaper basket is your friend.

So go ahead, say something.

It may be the wrong thing,

but you can throw that out

and no one will ever read your dumb thing
that you’ve put on them.

AG: Margaret has a long history

of procrastinating
to escape negative emotions.

MA: I procrastinated
about starting “The Handmaid’s Tale.”

I procrastinated for about three years.

I tried to write
a more normal novel instead,

because I thought it was just too batty.

AG: Too batty, really?

MA: Yeah, I mean it
doesn’t seem very batty now.

But think of when this was.

It was in the early ’80s.

Yeah, it just seemed a bit too batty.

AG: Margaret wasn’t just worried
that the plot was far-fetched.

Her fears actually kept her
from writing the book sooner.

MA: You don’t know who’s going to read it.

You’ve got no idea.

You don’t know
whether they’ll like it or not.

It’s not something you can anticipate
or have any control over, really.

AG: Years ago,

when asked to describe
her writing routine,

Margaret said she would spend the morning
procrastinating and worrying.

Then plunge into the manuscript
in a frenzy of anxiety

around three o’clock,

when it looked as though
she might not get anything done.

It still happens to her sometimes.

MA: Scrolling around on the news
certainly can get me sucked in.

AG: Luckily, Margaret
has come up with a unique strategy

for dealing with
her procrastination habit.

And it’s a trick that lines up
with what some researchers recommend.

MA: I had another name
that I grew up with,

and that gave me two names.

So I had a double identity.

So Margaret does the writing

and the other one does everything else.

AG: Her alter ego’s name is Peggy.

MA: It’s a Scottish
diminutive of “Margaret.”

AG: Do you actually refer to yourself
by both identities in your head?

MA: Absolutely.
AG: Seriously?

MA: Well, you see
what a range it gives me.

AG: Do you have conversations
between Margaret and Peggy?

MA: No, they lead quite separate lives.

Peggy does the laundry.

Now there is, of course, some overlap.

Because sometimes
when Peggy’s doing the laundry,

Margaret is thinking
about what is being written.

Deciding what to write
is done by Margaret.

Deciding when to write
is sometimes a tug of war.

AG: Margaret’s dual identity strategy
isn’t as strange as it sounds.

Psychologists have long observed
that we have two selves,

the want self and the should self.

Your want self runs on emotions.

It’s drawn to whatever avoids pain

or brings pleasure in the short run.

That’s Margaret watching
“Captain Underpants.”

MA: Oh, you’d rather be
watching “Captain Underpants,”

let’s face it.

AG: The should self is more concerned

with doing the right thing
in the long run.

That’s Peggy.

MA: The ordinary person who walks the dog

and eats the bran flakes for breakfast.

AG: In the moment,
the want self is often stronger.

No matter how hard
you try to push yourself

to do the work you should be doing,

it’s easy to get pulled into the show
you want to be binging.

Like, maybe, “The Handmaid’s Tale”?

(Music)

That’s the bad news.

The good news is that the should
self is smarter.

You can outwit the want self
by planning ahead.

This is a second strategy
for beating procrastination

that science teaches us.

You don’t have to worry
about resisting temptation

if you remove temptation.

In college, my roommate Palmer
was brilliant at this.

Whenever it was time to study for an exam,

he would ask me to hide his video games.

You’ve probably done it too.

Your should self puts the alarm clock
across the room at night

so your want self can’t reach
the snooze button in the morning.

You prevent procrastination

by taking willpower out of the equation.

Or maybe your should self
announces to the world

that you’re signing off social media

so your want self
won’t get sucked back in,

which is what Peggy does for Margaret,

who loves Twitter and sometimes posts
random questions that pop up.

MA: For instance, I put up a picture
of a weird mushroom,

and said, what is this?

Because I couldn’t find it.

(Adam laughs)

AG: When you’re tweeting,

how often does that happen
while you’re writing?

Do you actually interrupt yourself
or get distracted by social media?

MA: No, no. No, no way, no.

I might get distracted

before I take the plunge
into the writing burrow

but not while I’m in it.

AG: How do you prevent
that from happening?

Is there a mental firewall of sorts?

MA: You turn it off.

AG: For many people,
easier said than done.

You just turn it off and that’s it?

MA: Just don’t go there.

AG: It can help to schedule
a specific task in your calendar,

the same way you schedule meetings.

In one experiment,

writers were randomly assigned
to plan daily writing sessions.

They were over four times more productive,

and they didn’t lose any creativity.

Even scheduling 15 minutes a day
was enough to make some progress.

That’s time management.

You can also think
about timing management.

When do you procrastinate?

Procrastinators tend to be night owls.

The start of the work day is out of sync
with their circadian rhythms.

If that’s you,
and you have the flexibility,

try moving a task you procrastinate

to later in the day, when the wants
might be less tempting.

One of my favorite tactics
for outsmarting my want self

is a twist on the to-do list.

I found out that Margaret does it, too.

MA: So the list would include

everything from “call the tree guy”

to, you know, “clean the furnace.”

If it’s not on the list,
it doesn’t happen.

AG: That’s her to-do list.

But she also has a to-don’t list,

a set of activities
to avoid while working.

Think about your to-don’t list.

What would you put on it?

When I’m working on my boring
procrastinogenic tasks,

like reading contracts
and proofreading articles,

my to-don’t list includes
don’t play online Scrabble,

don’t turn on the TV –

unless I already know
what I want to watch,

and don’t scroll
on social media after posting.

Peggy also puts social media
on Margaret’s to-don’t list.

To hold herself accountable,

she makes a public commitment,

tweeting that she’s signing off to write.

MA: “I’m about to write, goodbye.”

And that’s about going off
social media for a while,

and reassuring people
that I’m not dead yet,

or possibly disappointing them
that I’m not dead yet.

(Adam laughs)

AG: I can’t imagine
that anyone is disappointed.

MA: They would be even more excited
to hear from me if I were dead.

They would be really excited then.

(Both laugh)

She came back from the dead.

AG: I’m having a hard time reconciling

your self-description
of being lazy and procrastinating

with your enormous productivity.

MA: Well, just consider
some elementary math.

Take the number of years I’ve been alive

and divide it by the number
of books I’ve written. (Laughs)

AG: Alright, so you
average less than one a year.

MA: Yes, and some are quite short.

AG: And you don’t feel like that’s a lot.

MA: No, it’s just, you know,
they accumulate.

AG: Maybe you can start forgiving
your want self for procrastinating.

Maybe you’ll succeed at putting
some of the should tasks on your calendar

and some wants on your to-don’t list.

Still, you can’t shake the feeling that
if only you had more time,

you could get more done.

But what if the opposite is true?