The crucial role of hydrogen in Indias clean energy transition

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solving for the big energy challenges in

a large country like india means finding

cheap and non-polluting sources

doing so will take multi-disciplinary

and multi-dimensional approaches to

innovation and scale dr arie marshall

brings a unique approach to finding

sustainable energy solutions in his work

around green hydrogen

he combines the understanding of the

grand vision of scale of innovation on

production in his role as chairman of

reliance’s new energy council and in the

past leading council of scientific and

industrial research the biggest chain of

industrial r d centers and labs in india

and now he also has a ground-up view on

frugal innovation thanks to his

participation in many young energy

startups

so why is green hydrogen important and

why is it a must for a country like

india oh it’s very very important and

i’ll give you at least three reasons

the first is

we import 160 billion dollar worth of

energy

all right we have to reduce that import

bill

the

second is

that we are world’s third largest uh

carbon footprint creator

because we emit

something like 3.6 gigatons of carbon

dioxide so we have to bring that down

and also there is this particular

aspiration of creating 450

gigawatts of renewable energy by 2030

within next nine years and there again

green hydrogen will play a very very

critical role

right you know green hydrogen the sound

of it maybe for uh historical reasons

sounds dangerous is that so

yes as well when you talk about hydrogen

you think of hydrogen bomb it is nothing

like that

uh hydrogen is a fuel and therefore all

the precautions that you normally take

with any fuel will have to be taken but

hydrogen has some advantages for example

hydrogen is not toxic at all

secondly hydrogen is very light it is

one of the lightest elements

so even if there is a release it just

diffuses away uh disperses away

the other thing is that there has been a

lot number of years of industrial

practice

for hydrogen safety and also fuel cells

have been running uh for example for

more than a decade and therefore there

are safety protocols that have been

developed so i wouldn’t worry about the

hydrogen safety as long as the protocols

are followed and on a lighter note i

don’t mind saying that while you and i

were young

we did have the hydrogen balloons and we

have handled hydrogen right so it is

safe and that’s good to hear but the

other problem is that india cannot

afford green hydrogen at least the way

it is today so how do we make it

affordable so that a billion indians can

access it over time

excellent question because if it is not

affordable the billion engines cannot

have it

what are the current costs the current

costs of green hydrogen are like five to

six dollars per kg how much do we have

to bring it down to one to two dollar

per kg so substantial reduction is it

possible yes

through research through innovation

uh through

uh policy changes and a whole range of

other things for example

uh you look at the electrolyzer which

splits water okay

as the size of the electrolyzer goes up

the cost come down with scaling the cost

will come down that’s the first

the second

is uh

looking at the electrolyzer itself uh

you know the energy efficiency is little

low and therefore you generate waste

heat can you capture it

also when you split water you are

hydrogen and oxygen but we don’t give

any value to oxygen but that oxygen is

very pure medical grade

and don’t forget that one kg of

hydrogen produces at the same time eight

kg of oxygen

and

that oxygen can be sold at 60 piece per

kg so valorization of that then there is

a scope for improving the life of stack

to save 25 years

uh better efficiency

of

the membranes and whole range of other

systems and also the government policies

for example we might generate uh

electricity by using wind power in

ladakh

or

by run of kutch for example

uh the

you know where the sun shines and we

have plenty of land but there is no

consumption either in ladakh or cuts so

there is no point in generating hydrogen

there so you transfer it uh through the

grid uh the electricity to

uh

let us say vizag and generate hydrogen

there and then start exporting because

we have tremendous scope for exporting

green hydrogen to southeast so by all

these measures combined together we can

bring the cost down

from five to six dollars

to one to two dollars

per kg i feel confident it’s gratifying

in some ways to hear that oxygen is a is

a very important collateral

output of this process uh which of

course has uh the need for which has

been highlighted even more so in recent

times so you’ve always said dr martial

that you don’t believe in make in india

or assembled in india but in invented

indian india so now that’s good to hear

but do we really have that research and

innovation firepower to power this

hydrogen quest

yes of course

i’m dangerously optimistic about our

capacity in research and innovation

having spent all my life here and having

seen what we have been able to achieve

now as far as green hydrogen is

concerned there are three aspects the

first is production

second is distribution and third is

utilization and each of these we require

research and most importantly it is not

copying what the waste is done

but also doing something that is of a

role you know you mentioned about my

association with startups and so on so

there is one sentient labs for example

what they have done is very pertinent

for india

what they do is that they take

agri-waste for example we have 200

million tons of agreements by the way

and then

they have developed a breakthrough

process

for microbial conversion of that

aggregates into hydrogen now you can see

the impact of this

first and foremost

uh you have decentralized uh sort of uh

hydrogen uh generation because this

agribase is spread all over india

the second is that the farmer’s income

will go up by 30 000 rupees

uh per acre of that order that’s what

you require local jobs uh

will be created you can see the kind of

differences

these kinds of research i would say not

innovation but innovation particularly

important for a country like india and

if you look at the industrial

enterprises if you look at the csi labs

uh etc a whole range of

activities have been uh

done including fuel cells

uh and all other

sort of technologies which go in the

entire value chain so i feel very very

confident that

not just make in india but invent in

india and make it india has

to be the platform right and you’ve also

you know talked about how we need to go

beyond leap frogging which i recall is a

term that we used in telecom to pole

vaulting which uh sounds like it’s a

much bigger and a more quantum leap so

tell us about how that applies to

hydrogen or green hydrogen oh yes

you can just so you see first of all

watching the frog into poor party you

know frog lived just a few feet

basically because he’s afraid of the

predator

paul what the size of the pole

determines the size of your aspiration

and that is how we have to go

and for that you will require

technological and policy innovation

are put together let me give an example

we had this program on new millennium

indian technology leadership initiative

which has started in 2000 and 2006 we

launched a program on fuel cells okay

proton exchange uh

membrane fuses

today thanks to people like dr ashish

amazing leader

and uh other csr laboratories you know

ncl plus others we have now indigenous

for yourself which competes with the

best

uh in the world especially if you’ll say

let’s say three kw through five

now what can the government do

for policy

there are six hundred thousand mobile

towers in

india

and each one of them is fed by greed

also has a disgenerating state and that

digital generation is highly polluting

as you know so supposing government has

a policy intervention and says no

within one year within two years

all six hundred thousand will be

replaced by indigenous fields you know

what is the impact huge

it will be thousands of crores of

industry that will come up but more

importantly

look at the difference it will make

first and foremost

the carbon footprint will go down by

something like seven and a half million

metric tons

second

the

carbon dioxide

it will go down by 75 percent

nox

will go down by a similar amount

sulfur dioxide

will completely manage particulate

matter will go down by 80 but most

importantly because all the indigenous

components are manufactured in india

jobs will be created in india just with

a switchable policy had the government

done it before yes you look at uh

for example ujjala i mean look at

light emitting diodes you know within

seven years it’s a world record we moved

from 0.2 percent penetration to 88

penetration can you see the huge impact

on carbon footprint so i think it is a

combination of breakthrough technology

plus policy that can make a difference

uh last question uh dr marshall kurt so

as we think about this and maybe even

dream about it can i actually now think

about my own hydrogen powered car or

scooter

oh yes of course

yes on scooter kpit technology is doing

the work but as far the car is concerned

uh already last seven october if i

remember correctly last year uh there

was a demonstration you know

i mentioned about

the fearsome developed by national

chemical laboratory so they brought in

the electrochemical component and then

kpi2 technologies uh they brought in the

uh automatic electronics component uh uh

the rest of the automation etcetera and

together they have developed uh

already sort of a car a bus for example

uh for mass transit that has been

developed by

data motors in indian oil uh together of

course with them imported ballard

uh fuel cell but doesn’t have to be i

mean we can generate our own like i give

the other example so it is very much

there i think what we need go in

is as i said talent technology and trust

we must trust the developments

that we had and therefore our car is

ready our bus is ready we are ready to

ride

right we’re ready to write indeed that’s

a wonderful note to end dr mashirk thank

you very much for speaking with us thank

you thank you pleasure

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