Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved Esther Perel

Why do we cheat?

And why do happy people cheat?

And when we say “infidelity,”
what exactly do we mean?

Is it a hookup, a love story,
paid sex, a chat room,

a massage with a happy ending?

Why do we think that men cheat
out of boredom and fear of intimacy,

but women cheat out of loneliness
and hunger for intimacy?

And is an affair always
the end of a relationship?

For the past 10 years,
I have traveled the globe

and worked extensively
with hundreds of couples

who have been shattered by infidelity.

There is one simple act of transgression

that can rob a couple
of their relationship,

their happiness and their
very identity: an affair.

And yet, this extremely common
act is so poorly understood.

So this talk is for anyone
who has ever loved.

Adultery has existed
since marriage was invented,

and so, too, the taboo against it.

In fact, infidelity has a tenacity
that marriage can only envy,

so much so, that this is
the only commandment

that is repeated twice in the Bible:

once for doing it, and once
just for thinking about it.

(Laughter)

So how do we reconcile
what is universally forbidden,

yet universally practiced?

Now, throughout history, men
practically had a license to cheat

with little consequence,

and supported by a host
of biological and evolutionary theories

that justified their need to roam,

so the double standard
is as old as adultery itself.

But who knows what’s really going on
under the sheets there, right?

Because when it comes to sex,

the pressure for men
is to boast and to exaggerate,

but the pressure for women
is to hide, minimize and deny,

which isn’t surprising when you consider
that there are still nine countries

where women can be killed for straying.

Now, monogamy used to be
one person for life.

Today, monogamy is one person at a time.

(Laughter)

(Applause)

I mean, many of you probably have said,

“I am monogamous in all my relationships.”

(Laughter)

We used to marry,

and had sex for the first time.

But now we marry,

and we stop having sex with others.

The fact is that monogamy
had nothing to do with love.

Men relied on women’s fidelity

in order to know whose children these are,

and who gets the cows when I die.

Now, everyone wants to know

what percentage of people cheat.

I’ve been asked that question
since I arrived at this conference.

(Laughter)

It applies to you.

But the definition of infidelity
keeps on expanding:

sexting, watching porn, staying
secretly active on dating apps.

So because there is no
universally agreed-upon definition

of what even constitutes an infidelity,

estimates vary widely,
from 26 percent to 75 percent.

But on top of it, we are
walking contradictions.

So 95 percent of us will say
that it is terribly wrong

for our partner to lie
about having an affair,

but just about the same
amount of us will say

that that’s exactly what we
would do if we were having one.

(Laughter)

Now, I like this definition
of an affair –

it brings together the three key elements:

a secretive relationship,
which is the core structure of an affair;

an emotional connection
to one degree or another;

and a sexual alchemy.

And alchemy is the key word here,

because the erotic frisson is such that
the kiss that you only imagine giving,

can be as powerful and as enchanting

as hours of actual lovemaking.

As Marcel Proust said,

it’s our imagination that is responsible
for love, not the other person.

So it’s never been easier to cheat,

and it’s never been more
difficult to keep a secret.

And never has infidelity exacted
such a psychological toll.

When marriage was an economic enterprise,

infidelity threatened
our economic security.

But now that marriage
is a romantic arrangement,

infidelity threatens
our emotional security.

Ironically, we used to turn to adultery –

that was the space where
we sought pure love.

But now that we seek love in marriage,

adultery destroys it.

Now, there are three ways that I think
infidelity hurts differently today.

We have a romantic ideal
in which we turn to one person

to fulfill an endless list of needs:

to be my greatest lover, my best friend,

the best parent, my trusted confidant,

my emotional companion,
my intellectual equal.

And I am it: I’m chosen, I’m unique,

I’m indispensable, I’m irreplaceable,

I’m the one.

And infidelity tells me I’m not.

It is the ultimate betrayal.

Infidelity shatters
the grand ambition of love.

But if throughout history,
infidelity has always been painful,

today it is often traumatic,

because it threatens our sense of self.

So my patient Fernando, he’s plagued.

He goes on: “I thought I knew my life.

I thought I knew who you were,
who we were as a couple, who I was.

Now, I question everything.”

Infidelity – a violation of trust,
a crisis of identity.

“Can I ever trust you again?” he asks.

“Can I ever trust anyone again?”

And this is also what my patient
Heather is telling me,

when she’s talking to me
about her story with Nick.

Married, two kids.

Nick just left on a business trip,

and Heather is playing
on his iPad with the boys,

when she sees a message
appear on the screen:

“Can’t wait to see you.”

Strange, she thinks,
we just saw each other.

And then another message:

“Can’t wait to hold you in my arms.”

And Heather realizes

these are not for her.

She also tells me
that her father had affairs,

but her mother, she found
one little receipt in the pocket,

and a little bit of lipstick
on the collar.

Heather, she goes digging,

and she finds hundreds of messages,

and photos exchanged
and desires expressed.

The vivid details
of Nick’s two-year affair

unfold in front of her in real time,

And it made me think:

Affairs in the digital age
are death by a thousand cuts.

But then we have another paradox
that we’re dealing with these days.

Because of this romantic ideal,

we are relying on our partner’s
fidelity with a unique fervor.

But we also have never
been more inclined to stray,

and not because we have new desires today,

but because we live in an era

where we feel that we are
entitled to pursue our desires,

because this is the culture
where I deserve to be happy.

And if we used to divorce
because we were unhappy,

today we divorce
because we could be happier.

And if divorce carried all the shame,

today, choosing to stay when you can leave

is the new shame.

So Heather, she can’t talk to her friends

because she’s afraid that they
will judge her for still loving Nick,

and everywhere she turns,
she gets the same advice:

Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb.

And if the situation were reversed,
Nick would be in the same situation.

Staying is the new shame.

So if we can divorce,

why do we still have affairs?

Now, the typical assumption
is that if someone cheats,

either there’s something wrong
in your relationship or wrong with you.

But millions of people
can’t all be pathological.

The logic goes like this: If you
have everything you need at home,

then there is no need
to go looking elsewhere,

assuming that there is such
a thing as a perfect marriage

that will inoculate us against wanderlust.

But what if passion
has a finite shelf life?

What if there are things
that even a good relationship

can never provide?

If even happy people cheat,

what is it about?

The vast majority of people
that I actually work with

are not at all chronic philanderers.

They are often people who are
deeply monogamous in their beliefs,

and at least for their partner.

But they find themselves in a conflict

between their values and their behavior.

They often are people who have
actually been faithful for decades,

but one day they cross a line

that they never thought they would cross,

and at the risk of losing everything.

But for a glimmer of what?

Affairs are an act of betrayal,

and they are also an expression
of longing and loss.

At the heart of an affair,
you will often find

a longing and a yearning
for an emotional connection,

for novelty, for freedom,
for autonomy, for sexual intensity,

a wish to recapture
lost parts of ourselves

or an attempt to bring back
vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.

I’m thinking about
another patient of mine, Priya,

who is blissfully married,

loves her husband,

and would never want to hurt the man.

But she also tells me

that she’s always done
what was expected of her:

good girl, good wife, good mother,

taking care of her immigrant parents.

Priya, she fell for the arborist
who removed the tree from her yard

after Hurricane Sandy.

And with his truck and his tattoos,
he’s quite the opposite of her.

But at 47, Priya’s affair is about
the adolescence that she never had.

And her story highlights for me
that when we seek the gaze of another,

it isn’t always our partner
that we are turning away from,

but the person that
we have ourselves become.

And it isn’t so much that we’re
looking for another person,

as much as we are
looking for another self.

Now, all over the world,

there is one word that people
who have affairs always tell me.

They feel alive.

And they often will tell me
stories of recent losses –

of a parent who died,

and a friend that went too soon,

and bad news at the doctor.

Death and mortality often live
in the shadow of an affair,

because they raise these questions.

Is this it? Is there more?

Am I going on for another
25 years like this?

Will I ever feel that thing again?

And it has led me to think
that perhaps these questions

are the ones that propel
people to cross the line,

and that some affairs are
an attempt to beat back deadness,

in an antidote to death.

And contrary to what you may think,

affairs are way less about sex,
and a lot more about desire:

desire for attention,
desire to feel special,

desire to feel important.

And the very structure of an affair,

the fact that you can
never have your lover,

keeps you wanting.

That in itself is a desire machine,

because the incompleteness, the ambiguity,

keeps you wanting
that which you can’t have.

Now some of you probably think

that affairs don’t happen
in open relationships,

but they do.

First of all, the conversation
about monogamy is not the same

as the conversation about infidelity.

But the fact is that it seems
that even when we have

the freedom to have other sexual partners,

we still seem to be lured
by the power of the forbidden,

that if we do that which
we are not supposed to do,

then we feel like we are really
doing what we want to.

And I’ve also told
quite a few of my patients

that if they could bring
into their relationships

one tenth of the boldness,
the imagination and the verve

that they put into their affairs,

they probably would never need to see me.

(Laughter)

So how do we heal from an affair?

Desire runs deep.

Betrayal runs deep.

But it can be healed.

And some affairs are death knells

for relationships that were
already dying on the vine.

But others will jolt us
into new possibilities.

The fact is, the majority of couples

who have experienced
affairs stay together.

But some of them will merely survive,

and others will actually be able
to turn a crisis into an opportunity.

They’ll be able to turn this
into a generative experience.

And I’m actually thinking even
more so for the deceived partner,

who will often say,

“You think I didn’t want more?

But I’m not the one who did it.”

But now that the affair is exposed,

they, too, get to claim more,

and they no longer have
to uphold the status quo

that may not have been working
for them that well, either.

I’ve noticed that a lot of couples,

in the immediate aftermath of an affair,

because of this new disorder
that may actually lead to a new order,

will have depths of conversations
with honesty and openness

that they haven’t had in decades.

And, partners who were
sexually indifferent

find themselves suddenly
so lustfully voracious,

they don’t know where it’s coming from.

Something about the fear
of loss will rekindle desire,

and make way for an entirely
new kind of truth.

So when an affair is exposed,

what are some of the specific things
that couples can do?

We know from trauma that healing begins

when the perpetrator
acknowledges their wrongdoing.

So for the partner who had the affair,

for Nick,

one thing is to end the affair,

but the other is the essential,
important act of expressing

guilt and remorse for hurting his wife.

But the truth is

that I have noticed that quite a lot
of people who have affairs

may feel terribly guilty
for hurting their partner,

but they don’t feel guilty
for the experience of the affair itself.

And that distinction is important.

And Nick, he needs to hold
vigil for the relationship.

He needs to become, for a while,
the protector of the boundaries.

It’s his responsibility to bring it up,

because if he thinks about it,

he can relieve Heather from the obsession,

and from having to make sure
that the affair isn’t forgotten,

and that in itself
begins to restore trust.

But for Heather,

or deceived partners,

it is essential to do things
that bring back a sense of self-worth,

to surround oneself with love
and with friends and activities

that give back joy
and meaning and identity.

But even more important,

is to curb the curiosity
to mine for the sordid details –

Where were you? Where did you do it?

How often? Is she better
than me in bed? –

questions that only inflict more pain,

and keep you awake at night.

And instead, switch to what I call
the investigative questions,

the ones that mine
the meaning and the motives –

What did this affair mean for you?

What were you able to express
or experience there

that you could no longer do with me?

What was it like for you
when you came home?

What is it about us that you value?

Are you pleased this is over?

Every affair will redefine a relationship,

and every couple will determine

what the legacy of the affair will be.

But affairs are here to stay,
and they’re not going away.

And the dilemmas of love and desire,

they don’t yield just simple answers
of black and white and good and bad,

and victim and perpetrator.

Betrayal in a relationship
comes in many forms.

There are many ways
that we betray our partner:

with contempt, with neglect,

with indifference, with violence.

Sexual betrayal is only
one way to hurt a partner.

In other words, the victim of an affair

is not always the victim of the marriage.

Now, you’ve listened to me,

and I know what you’re thinking:

She has a French accent,
she must be pro-affair.

(Laughter)

So, you’re wrong.

I am not French.

(Laughter)

(Applause)

And I’m not pro-affair.

But because I think that good
can come out of an affair,

I have often been asked
this very strange question:

Would I ever recommend it?

Now, I would no more
recommend you have an affair

than I would recommend you have cancer,

and yet we know that people
who have been ill

often talk about how their illness
has yielded them a new perspective.

The main question that I’ve been asked
since I arrived at this conference

when I said I would talk
about infidelity is, for or against?

I said, “Yes.”

(Laughter)

I look at affairs from a dual perspective:

hurt and betrayal on one side,

growth and self-discovery on the other –

what it did to you,
and what it meant for me.

And so when a couple comes to me
in the aftermath of an affair

that has been revealed,

I will often tell them this:

Today in the West,

most of us are going to have
two or three relationships

or marriages,

and some of us are going
to do it with the same person.

Your first marriage is over.

Would you like to create
a second one together?

Thank you.

(Applause)

我们为什么要作弊?

为什么快乐的人会作弊?

当我们说“不忠”时,我们
究竟是什么意思?

是转播、爱情故事、
有偿性爱、聊天室还是

结局圆满的按摩?

为什么我们认为男人
出轨是因为无聊和害怕亲密,

而女人出轨是因为孤独
和渴望亲密?

外遇总是
一段关系的结束吗?

在过去的 10 年里,
我走遍了全球


与数百对

因不忠而心碎的夫妇进行了广泛的合作。

有一个简单的

违法行为可以剥夺
他们的关系

、幸福和他们
的身份:外遇。

然而,人们对这种极其常见的
行为却知之甚少。

所以这个演讲适合任何
曾经爱过的人。

自婚姻发明以来,通奸就一直存在

,反对通奸的禁忌也是如此。

事实上,不忠具有
婚姻只能羡慕的坚韧

,以至于这

是圣经中唯一重复两次的诫命:

一次是为了做,一次
是为了思考。

(笑声)

那么我们如何
调和普遍禁止

但普遍实践的东西?

现在,纵观整个历史,男人
几乎都获得了出轨的许可证,

而且几乎没有什么后果,

并且得到了
许多生物学和进化论的支持

,证明了他们需要漫游是正当的,

所以双重标准
与通奸本身一样古老。

但是谁知道床单下面到底发生了
什么,对吧?

因为在性方面,

男人的压力
是吹嘘和夸大,

而女人的压力
是隐藏、最小化和否认,

考虑
到还有九个

国家可以杀死女人,这并不奇怪 为流浪。

现在,一夫一妻制曾经是
一个人一辈子。

今天,一夫一妻制是一次一个人。

(笑声)

(掌声)

我的意思是,你们中的许多人可能说过,

“我在所有的关系中都是一夫一妻制的。”

(笑声)

我们曾经结婚

,第一次发生性关系。

但现在我们结婚了

,我们不再和别人发生性关系。

事实上,一夫一妻制
与爱情无关。

男人依靠女人的忠诚

,才能知道这些是谁的孩子,

以及我死后谁得到了奶牛。

现在,每个人都想知道有

多少人作弊。 自从

我参加这次会议以来,就一直有人问我这个问题

(笑声)

它适用于你。

但不忠的定义
不断扩大:发

短信、看色情片、
在约会应用程序上保持秘密活跃。

因此,由于没有
普遍同意的

定义甚至构成不忠,

估计差异很大,
从 26% 到 75%。

但最重要的是,我们正在
走矛盾。

因此,我们 95% 的人会说

我们的伴侣在
婚外情上撒谎是非常错误的,

但几乎同样
数量的人会

说,
如果我们有婚外情,我们就会这样做。

(笑声)

现在,我喜欢
这种外遇的定义——

它汇集了三个关键要素

:秘密关系,
这是外遇的核心结构;

某种程度的情感联系;

和性的炼金术。

炼金术是这里的关键词,

因为色情的颤抖是这样
的,你只能想象给予的吻,

可以

像几个小时的实际做爱一样强大和迷人。

正如马塞尔·普鲁斯特(Marcel Proust)所说

,对爱负责的是我们的想象力,而
不是其他人。

因此,作弊从未如此简单

,保守秘密也从未如此
困难。

而且从来没有不忠造成
如此严重的心理伤害。

当婚姻是一项经济事业时,

不忠威胁着
我们的经济安全。

但现在婚姻
是一种浪漫的安排,

不忠威胁着
我们的情感安全。

具有讽刺意味的是,我们曾经转向通奸——

那是
我们寻求纯爱的空间。

但现在我们在婚姻中寻求爱情,

通奸摧毁了它。

现在,我认为
今天的不忠行为有三种不同的伤害方式。

我们有一个浪漫的理想,
在这个理想中,我们求助于一个人

来满足无穷无尽的需求

:成为我最伟大的爱人、我最好的朋友

、最好的父母、我信任的知己、

我的情感伴侣、
我的智力平等。

我就是它:我被选中,我是独一无二的,

我是不可或缺的,我是不可替代的,

我是唯一的。

不忠告诉我我不是。

这是终极的背叛。

不忠会粉碎
爱情的宏大抱负。

但如果纵观历史,
不忠一直是痛苦的,

今天它往往是创伤性的,

因为它威胁到我们的自我意识。

所以我的病人费尔南多,他受到了困扰。

他继续说:“我以为我知道我的生活。

我以为我知道你是
谁,我们是谁,我是谁。

现在,我质疑一切。”

不忠——违反信任
,身份危机。

“我还能再相信你吗?” 他问。

“我还能再相信任何人吗?”

这也是我的病人
希瑟告诉我的,

当她和我
谈论她和尼克的故事时。

已婚,有两个孩子。

尼克刚刚出差

,Heather 正在
和男孩们玩他的 iPad,

这时她看到
屏幕上出现一条消息:

“等不及要见到你了。”

奇怪,她想,
我们刚刚见过面。

然后是另一条信息:

“迫不及待地想把你抱在怀里。”

希瑟意识到

这些不适合她。

她还告诉我
,她父亲有外遇,

但她母亲,她
在口袋里发现了一张小收据,领口上

还有一点口红

希瑟,她去挖掘

,她发现了数百条信息,

交换的照片
和表达的愿望。

尼克两年婚外情的生动细节

实时展现在她面前

,让我不禁想到:

数字时代的婚外情
就是千刀万剐。

但是
,这些天我们正在处理另一个悖论。

由于这种浪漫的理想,

我们
以独特的热情依靠伴侣的忠诚。

但我们也从未像现在
这样倾向于迷路

,不是因为我们今天有了新的欲望,

而是因为我们生活在一个

我们觉得自己
有权追求自己的欲望的时代,

因为这
是我应该快乐的文化 .

如果我们过去
因为不快乐而离婚,

今天我们离婚
是因为我们可以更快乐。

如果离婚带来了所有的耻辱,那么

今天,当你可以离开时选择留下

是新的耻辱。

所以希瑟,她不能和她的朋友说话,

因为她害怕他们
会因为仍然爱尼克而评判她,

而无论她转身,
她都会得到同样的建议:

离开他。 把狗扔在路边。

如果情况逆转,
尼克也会处于同样的境地。

留下来是新的耻辱。

所以如果我们可以离婚,

为什么我们还有外遇?

现在,典型的假设
是,如果有人出轨,

要么是你的关系出了
问题,要么是你有问题。

但数百万人
不可能都是病态的。

逻辑是这样的:如果你
家里有你需要的一切,

那么就没有必要
去别处寻找,

假设有
这样一种完美的婚姻

可以让我们免受旅行癖的侵害。

但是,如果激情
的保质期是有限的呢?

如果有些
东西即使是良好的关系

也无法提供怎么办?

如果连快乐的人都作弊,

那又是怎么回事?

与我共事的绝大多数人

根本不是长期的花花公子。

他们通常是
信仰一夫一妻制的人

,至少对于他们的伴侣来说是这样。

但他们发现自己处于

价值观和行为之间的冲突中。

他们往往
是几十年来一直忠心耿耿的人,

但有一天他们越过了

一条他们从未想过会越过的界线,

并冒着失去一切的风险。

但是为了一瞥什么?

外遇是一种背叛

,也是一种
渴望和失落的表现。

在外遇的核心,
你经常会发现

一种
对情感联系

、新奇、自由
、自主、性强度的渴望和渴望

,渴望重新找回
失去的自我,

或者试图恢复
活力。 面对损失和悲剧。

我在想我的
另一个病人,Priya,

她幸福地结婚了,

爱她的丈夫

,永远不想伤害那个男人。

但她也告诉我

,她一直在做
人们对她的期望:

好女孩、好妻子、好妈妈、

照顾她的移民父母。

Priya,她爱上了在飓风桑迪之后
把树从她院子里移走的树艺师

而他的卡车和他的纹身,
他与她完全相反。

但在 47 岁时,Priya 的婚外情是关于
她从未有过的青春期。

她的故事向我
强调,当我们寻求他人的注视时,

我们远离的并不总是
我们的伴侣,

而是
我们自己成为的那个人。

与其说我们在
寻找另一个人,

不如说我们在
寻找另一个自己。

现在,全世界,

有外遇的人总是告诉我一个词。

他们觉得自己还活着。

他们经常会告诉我
最近失去的故事

——一个父母去世了

,一个朋友去得太早了,

还有医生的坏消息。

死亡和死亡往往生活
在婚外情的阴影中,

因为它们提出了这些问题。

是这个吗? 还有更多吗?

我还要这样再过
25年吗?

我还会再有那种感觉吗?

这让我想到
,也许这些

问题是推动
人们越界的问题,

而有些事情
是试图击退死亡

,作为死亡的解毒剂。

与你可能想象的相反,

外遇与性无关,
而更多地与欲望有关:

对关注的
渴望,对感觉特别的

渴望,对感觉重要的渴望。

而外遇的结构

,你
永远无法拥有你的爱人的事实,

让你一直想要。

这本身就是一台欲望机器,

因为不完整、模棱两可,

让你一直
想要你无法拥有的东西。

现在你们中的一些人可能认为

在开放的关系中不会发生婚外情,

但确实如此。

首先,
关于一夫一妻制

的谈话与关于不忠的谈话是不一样的。

但事实是
,即使我们拥有

拥有其他性伴侣的自由,

我们似乎仍然
被禁忌的力量所诱惑

,如果我们做了
我们不应该做的事情,

那么我们会觉得 我们真的
在做我们想做的事。

而且我还告诉
我的很多病人

,如果他们能把

十分之一的勇气
、想象力和精力

投入到他们的关系中,

他们可能永远不需要见我。

(笑声)

那么我们如何从婚外情中恢复过来呢?

欲望根深蒂固。

背叛根深蒂固。

但它可以被治愈。

有些事情

是为
已经垂死的关系敲响的丧钟。

但其他人会让我们
陷入新的可能性。

事实上,大多数

经历过
婚外情的夫妻都在一起。

但他们中的一些人只会生存下来,

而另一些人实际上
能够将危机转化为机遇。

他们将能够将其
转变为一种生成体验。

而事实上,我
对被欺骗的伴侣更是如此,

他们经常会说,

“你以为我不想要更多吗?

但我不是那个做的。”

但现在这件事被曝光了,

他们也可以要求更多

,他们也不再需要

维持可能
对他们没有那么好用的现状。

我注意到很多夫妻

在出轨之后,

因为
这种可能实际上导致新秩序的新混乱,会以

他们几十年来没有的诚实和开放的方式进行深入的对话。

而且,性冷淡的伴侣

发现自己突然
变得如此贪婪,

他们不知道这是从哪里来的。 对

失去的恐惧
会重新点燃欲望

,为
一种全新的真理让路。

那么当婚外情被曝光时

,情侣们可以做哪些具体的事情呢?

我们从创伤中知道,

当肇事者
承认自己的错误行为时,治疗就开始了。

所以对于有外遇的伴侣,

对于尼克来说,

一件事是结束外遇,但另一件事

是表达

对伤害妻子的内疚和悔恨的必要而重要的行为。

但事实是

,我注意到很多
有外遇的人

可能会
因为伤害他们的伴侣而感到非常内疚,

但他们并不
为外遇本身的经历感到内疚。

这种区别很重要。

而尼克,他需要
为这段关系保持警惕。

他需要在一段时间
内成为边界的保护者。

提出这件事是他的责任,

因为如果他想一想,

他可以让希瑟从痴迷中解脱出来,

不必确保
这件事不被遗忘,

而这本身就
开始恢复信任。

但对于希瑟

或受骗的伴侣

来说,做一些能
找回自我价值感的事情

,让自己充满爱
、朋友和活动

,让自己找回快乐
、意义和身份,这是至关重要的。

但更重要的

是,抑制
对肮脏细节的好奇心——

你在哪里? 你在哪里做的?

多常? 她
在床上比我好吗? ——

只会造成更多痛苦的问题

,让你夜不能寐。

相反,转向我所谓
的调查性问题,

挖掘意义和动机的问题——

这件事对你意味着什么?

你能在那里表达或体验到哪些

你不能再和我一起做的事情?

你回家的时候是什么感觉?

您看重我们的什么?

你高兴这件事结束了吗?

每一次婚外情都会重新定义一段关系

,每一对情侣都会决定

这段婚外情的遗产。

但事情会一直存在,
而且不会消失。

而爱与欲望的两难境地,

它们并不仅仅产生简单
的黑白、好与坏

、受害者与加害者的答案。

关系中的背叛
有多种形式。

我们背叛伴侣的方式有很多种

:轻蔑、忽视

、冷漠、暴力。

性背叛只是
伤害伴侣的一种方式。

换句话说,外遇

的受害者并不总是婚姻的受害者。

现在,你听了我的话

,我知道你在想什么:

她有法国口音,
她一定是亲情的。

(笑声)

所以,你错了。

我不是法国人。

(笑声)

(掌声)

而且我不支持外遇。

但因为我认为
外遇可以带来好处,

所以经常有人问我
这个非常奇怪的问题:

我会推荐它吗?

现在,我不
建议你有外遇,就像

我建议你得癌症一样

,但我们知道,
生病的人

经常谈论他们的疾病如何为
他们带来了新的视角。

自从我参加这次会议以来,

当我说我会谈论不忠时,我被问到的主要问题
是,赞成还是反对?

我说是。”

(笑声)

我从双重角度看待事务:

一方面是伤害和背叛,另一方面是

成长和自我发现——

它对你做了
什么,对我意味着什么。

因此,当一对夫妇
在婚外

情曝光后来找我时,

我经常会告诉他们:

今天在西方,

我们大多数人将有
两到三段关系

或婚姻,

而我们中的一些人是 打算
和同一个人一起做。

你的第一次婚姻结束了。

你想
一起创造第二个吗?

谢谢你。

(掌声)