The new age of corporate monopolies Margrethe Vestager

Let’s go back to 1957.

Representatives
from six European countries

had come to Rome

to sign the treaty that was
to create the European Union.

Europe was destroyed.

A world war had emerged from Europe.

The human suffering was unbelievable

and unprecedented.

Those men

wanted to create a peaceful,

democratic Europe,

a Europe that works for its people.

And one of the many building blocks

in that peace project

was a common European market.

Already back then,

they saw how markets,

when left to themselves,

can sort of slip into being
just the private property

of big businesses and cartels,

meeting the needs of some businesses

and not the needs of customers.

So from our very first day,

in 1957,

the European Union had rules

to defend fair competition.

And that means competition on the merits,

that you compete
on the quality of your products,

the prices you can offer,

the services, the innovation
that you produce.

That’s competition on the merits.

You have a fair chance
of making it on such a market.

And it’s my job,

as Commissioner for Competition,

to make sure that companies
who do business in Europe

live by those rules.

But let’s take a step back.

Why do we need rules
on competition at all?

Why not just let businesses compete?

Isn’t that also the best for us

if they compete freely,

since more competition

drives more quality,

lower prices, more innovation?

Well, mostly it is.

But the problem is
that sometimes, for businesses,

competition can be inconvenient,

because competition means
that the race is never over,

the game is never won.

No matter how well
you were doing in the past,

there’s always someone

who are out there
wanting to take your place.

So the temptation to avoid competition

is powerful.

It’s rooted in motives
as old as Adam and Eve:

in greed for yet more money,

in fear of losing
your position in the market

and all the benefits it brings.

And when greed and fear

are linked to power,

you have a dangerous mix.

We see that in political life.

In part of the world,

the mix of greed and fear

means that those who get power

become reluctant to give it back.

One of the many things

I like and admire in our democracies

are the norms

that make our leaders hand over power

when voters tell them to.

And competition rules
can do a similar thing in the market,

making sure that greed and fear
doesn’t overcome fairness.

Because those rules mean

that companies cannot misuse their power
to undermine competition.

Think for a moment about your car.

It has thousands of parts,

from the foam that makes the seats

to the electrical wiring
to the light bulbs.

And for many of those parts,

the world’s carmakers,

they are dependent
on only a few suppliers.

So it’s hardly surprising

that it is kind of tempting
for those suppliers

to come together and fix prices.

But just imagine what that could do

to the final price
of your new car in the market.

Except, it’s not imaginary.

The European Commission

has dealt with already
seven different car parts cartels,

and we’re still investigating some.

Here, the Department of Justice

are also looking
into the market for car parts,

and it has called it
the biggest criminal investigation

it has ever pursued.

But without competition rules,

there would be no investigation,

and there would be nothing
to stop this collusion from happening

and the prices of your car to go up.

Yet it’s not only companies

who can undermine fair competition.

Governments can do it, too.

And governments do that
when they hand out subsidies

to just the favorite few, the selected.

They may do that
when they hand out subsidies –

and, of course,
all financed by taxpayers –

to companies.

That may be in the form
of special tax treatments,

like the tax benefits

that firms like Fiat,
Starbucks and Apple got

from some governments in Europe.

Those subsidies stop companies
from competing on equal terms.

They can mean that
the companies that succeed,

well, they are the companies
that got the most subsidy,

the ones that are the best-connected,

and not, as it should be,

the companies that serve
consumers the best.

So there are times when we need to step in

to make sure that competition
works the way it should.

By doing that, we help
the market to work fairly,

because competition gives consumers
the power to demand a fair deal.

It means that companies know
that if they cannot offer good prices

or the service that’s expected,

well, the customers
will go somewhere else.

And that sort of fairness
is more important

than we may sometimes realize.

Very few people think
about politics all the time.

Some even skip it at election time.

But we are all in the market.

Every day, we are in the market.

And we don’t want businesses
to agree on prices in the back office.

We don’t want them
to divide the market between them.

We don’t want one big company

just to shut out competitors

from ever showing us what they can do.

If that happens,

well, obviously, we feel
that someone has cheated us,

that we are being ignored
or taken for granted by the market.

And that may undermine
not only our trust in the market

but also our trust in the society.

In a recent survey,

more than two-thirds of Europeans

said that they had felt
the effects of lack of competition:

that the price
for electricity was too high,

that the price for the medicines
they needed was too high,

that they had no real choice

if they wanted to travel
by bus or by plane,

or they got poor service
from their internet provider.

In short, they found that the market
didn’t treat them fairly.

And that might seem
like very small things,

but they can give you this sense

that the world isn’t really fair.

And they see the market,
which was supposed to serve everyone,

become more like the private property
of a few powerful companies.

The market is not the society.

Our societies are, of course,
much, much more than the market.

But lack of trust in the market

can rub off on society

so we lose trust in our society as well.

And it may be the most important
thing we have, trust.

We can trust each other
if we are treated as equals.

If we are all to have the same chances,

well, we all have to follow
the same fundamental rules.

Of course, some people and some businesses
are more successful than others,

but we do not trust in a society

if the prizes are handed out

even before the contest begins.

And this is where
competition rules come in,

because when we make sure
that markets work fairly,

then businesses compete on the merits,

and that helps to build the trust
that we need as citizens

to feel comfortable and in control,

and the trust that allows
our society to work.

Because without trust,
everything becomes harder.

Just to live our daily lives,
we need to trust in strangers,

to trust the banks who keep our money,

the builders who build our home,

the electrician
who comes to fix the wiring,

the doctor who treats us when we’re ill,

not to mention
the other drivers on the road,

and everyone knows that they are crazy.

And yet, we have to trust them

to do the right thing.

And the thing is
that the more our societies grow,

the more important trust becomes

and the harder it is to build.

And that is a paradox of modern societies.

And this is especially true

when technology changes
the way that we interact.

Of course, to some degree,
technology can help us

to build trust in one another
with ratings systems and other systems

that enable the sharing economy.

But technology also creates
completely new challenges

when they ask us
not to trust in other people

but to trust in algorithms and computers.

Of course, we all see
and share and appreciate

all the good that
new technology can do us.

It’s a lot of good.

Autonomous cars can give people
with disabilities new independence.

It can save us all time,

and it can make a much, much
better use of resources.

Algorithms that rely on crunching
enormous amounts of data

can enable our doctors
to give us a much better treatment,

and many other things.

But no one is going
to hand over their medical data

or step into a car
that’s driven by an algorithm

unless they trust the companies
that they are dealing with.

And that trust isn’t always there.

Today, for example,
less than a quarter of Europeans

trust online businesses
to protect their personal information.

But what if people knew

that they could rely
on technology companies

to treat them fairly?

What if they knew that those companies

respond to competition
by trying to do better,

by trying to serve consumers better,

not by using their power

to shut out competitors,

say, by pushing their services

far, far down the list of search results

and promoting themselves?

What if they knew
that compliance with the rules

was built into the algorithms by design,

that the algorithm had to go
to competition rules school

before they were ever allowed to work,

that those algorithms were designed

in a way that meant
that they couldn’t collude,

that they couldn’t form
their own little cartel

in the black box they’re working in?

Together with regulation,

competition rules can do that.

They can help us to make sure

that new technology treats people fairly

and that everyone can compete
on a level playing field.

And that can help us build the trust

that we need for real innovation

to flourish

and for societies to develop for citizens.

Because trust cannot be imposed.

It has to be earned.

Since the very first days
of the European Union,

60 years ago,

our competition rules have helped

to build that trust.

A lot of things have changed.

It’s hard to say
what those six representatives

would have made of a smartphone.

But in today’s world,

as well as in their world,

competition makes the market
work for everyone.

And that is why I am convinced

that real and fair competition

has a vital role to play

in building the trust we need

to get the best of our societies,

and that starts with enforcing our rules,

actually just to make
the market work for everyone.

Thank you.

(Applause)

Bruno Giussani: Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Margrethe Vestager: It was a pleasure.

BG: I want to ask you two questions.

The first one is about data,
because I have the impression

that technology and data are changing
the way competition takes place

and the way competition regulation
is designed and enforced.

Can you maybe comment on that?

MV: Well, yes, it is
definitely challenging us,

because we both have to sharpen our tools

but also to develop new tools.

When we were going through
the Google responses

to our statement of objection,

we were going through
5.2 terabytes of data.

It’s quite a lot.

So we had to set up new systems.

We had to figure out how to do this,

because you cannot work
the way you did just a few years ago.

So we are definitely
sharpening up our working methods.

The other thing is
that we try to distinguish

between different kinds of data,

because some data is extremely valuable

and they will form, like,
a barrier to entry in a market.

Other things you can just –
it loses its value tomorrow.

So we try to make sure

that we never, ever underestimate the fact

that data works
as a currency in the market

and as an asset that can be
a real barrier for competition.

BG: Google. You fined them
2.8 billion euros a few months ago.

MV: No, that was dollars.
It’s not so strong these days.

BG: Ah, well, depends on the –

(Laughter)

Google appealed the case.
The case is going to court.

It will last a while.

Earlier, last year, you asked Apple
to pay 13 billion in back taxes,

and you have also
investigated other companies,

including European and Russian companies,

not only American companies, by far.

Yet the investigations
against the American companies

are the ones that have attracted
the most attention

and they have also attracted
some accusations.

You have been accused, essentially,
of protectionism, of jealousy,

or using legislation
to hit back at American companies

that have conquered European markets.

“The Economist” just this week
on the front page writes,

“Vestager Versus The Valley.”

How do you react to that?

MV: Well, first of all,
I take it very seriously,

because bias has no room
in law enforcement.

We have to prove our cases
with the evidence and the facts

and the jurisprudence

in order also to present it to the courts.

The second thing is
that Europe is open for business,

but not for tax evasion.

(Applause)

The thing is that we are changing,

and for instance,
when I ask my daughters –

they use Google as well –

“Why do you do that?”

They say, “Well, because it works.
It’s a very good product.”

They would never, ever,
come up with the answer,

“It’s because it’s a US product.”

It’s just because it works.

And that is of course how it should be.

But just the same, it is important
that someone is looking after to say,

“Well, we congratulate you

while you grow and grow and grow,

but congratulation stops

if we find that you’re
misusing your position

to harm competitors
so that they cannot serve consumers.”

BG: It will be
a fascinating case to follow.

Thank you for coming to TED.

MV: It was a pleasure. Thanks a lot.

(Applause)

让我们回到 1957 年。

来自六个欧洲国家

的代表来到

罗马签署
了创建欧盟的条约。

欧洲被摧毁了。

一场世界大战从欧洲爆发了。

人类的苦难是难以置信

和前所未有的。

那些人

想要建立一个和平、

民主的

欧洲,一个为其人民服务的欧洲。

该和平项目的众多基石之一

是一个共同的欧洲市场。

早在那时,

他们就看到了市场

如何在放任自流时

成为大企业和卡特尔的私有财产,

满足某些企业

的需求,而不是客户的需求。

因此,从

1957 年的第一天起,

欧盟就有

了捍卫公平竞争的规则。

这意味着竞争优势,

即您
在产品质量、

您可以提供的价格

、服务和
您生产的创新上竞争。

那是在优点上的竞争。

你有公平的
机会在这样的市场上取得成功。

作为竞争事务专员,我的工作是

确保
在欧洲开展业务的公司

遵守这些规则。

但是,让我们退后一步。

为什么我们需要
竞争规则?

为什么不让企业竞争? 如果他们自由竞争,

这对我们来说不是最好的吗

因为更多的竞争会

带来更高的质量、

更低的价格和更多的创新?

嗯,大部分是这样。

但问题是
,有时,对于企业来说,

竞争可能会带来不便,

因为竞争
意味着比赛永远不会结束

,比赛永远不会赢。

不管
你过去做得多么好

,总会有人

想取代你的位置。

因此,避免竞争的诱惑

是强大的。

它植根于
与亚当和夏娃一样古老的动机

:贪婪地获得更多的钱

,害怕失去
你在市场上的地位

以及它带来的所有好处。

当贪婪和

恐惧与权力联系在一起时,

你就有了危险的组合。

我们在政治生活中看到了这一点。

在世界

的某些地方,贪婪和恐惧的混合

意味着那些获得权力的人

不愿意将权力归还。

在我们的民主国家中,我喜欢和钦佩的许多事情之一

就是让我们的领导人

在选民告诉他们时交出权力的规范。

竞争规则
可以在市场上做类似的事情,

确保贪婪和恐惧
不会战胜公平。

因为这些规则

意味着公司不能滥用
权力破坏竞争。

想一想你的车。

它有数千个部件,

从制造座椅的泡沫

到电线
再到灯泡。

而对于其中许多零部件

,全球汽车制造商来说,

它们只依赖
于少数供应商。

因此

,这些供应

商聚集在一起并确定价格是一种诱惑,这并不奇怪。

但试想一下,这会对

您的新车在市场上的最终价格产生什么影响。

除了,这不是想象的。

欧盟委员会

已经处理了
七种不同的汽车零部件卡特尔

,我们仍在调查一些。

在这里,司法部

也在调查
汽车零部件市场,

并称其
为有史以来最大的刑事调查

但是没有竞争规则,

就没有调查,

就没有什么
可以阻止这种勾结的发生

和你的汽车价格上涨。

然而

,破坏公平竞争的不仅是公司。

政府也可以这样做。

当政府

只向最喜欢的少数人、被选中的人发放补贴时,他们就会这样做。

当他们向公司发放补贴时

——当然,
这些补贴都是由纳税人资助的——他们可能会这样做

这可能
是特殊税收待遇

的形式,例如菲亚特、
星巴克和苹果等公司

从欧洲一些政府那里获得的税收优惠。

这些补贴阻止了公司
在平等条件下竞争。

他们可能
意味着成功的公司,

嗯,他们是
获得最多补贴的公司,

是那些联系最紧密的公司

,而不是应该


消费者提供最好服务的公司。

因此,有时我们需要介入

以确保
竞争以应有的方式进行。

通过这样做,我们
帮助市场公平运作,

因为竞争使消费者
有能力要求公平交易。

这意味着公司知道
,如果他们不能提供好的价格

或预期的

服务,那么客户
就会去别的地方。

这种公平

比我们有时意识到的更为重要。

很少有人一直在
思考政治。

有些人甚至在选举时跳过它。

但我们都在市场上。

每天,我们都在市场上。

我们不希望企业
在后台就价格达成一致。

我们不希望他们
在他们之间瓜分市场。

我们不希望一家大公司

仅仅阻止竞争对手

向我们展示他们的能力。

如果发生这种情况,

那么,很明显,我们会
觉得有人欺骗了我们

,我们被市场忽视
或视为理所当然。

这不仅会破坏
我们对市场的信任

,也会破坏我们对社会的信任。

在最近的一项调查中,

超过三分之二的欧洲人

表示,他们感受到
了缺乏竞争的影响:

电价太高,他们

需要的药品价格
太高

,他们没有真正的

如果他们想
乘坐公共汽车或飞机旅行,

或者他们从互联网提供商那里得到的服务很差
,他们可以选择。

总之,他们发现市场
没有公平对待他们。


似乎是很小的事情,

但它们可以让你

感觉到世界并不公平。

他们看到本
应为所有人服务的市场

变得更像
是少数强大公司的私有财产。

市场不是社会。

当然,我们的社会
远不止是市场。

但是对市场缺乏信任

会影响社会,

因此我们也会对社会失去信任。

这可能是我们拥有的最重要的
东西,信任。

如果我们被平等对待,我们就可以相互信任。

如果我们都拥有相同的机会,

那么,我们都必须
遵循相同的基本规则。

当然,有些人和有些企业
比其他人更成功,

如果

在比赛开始之前就颁发奖品,我们就不相信一个社会。

这就是
竞争规则的用武之地,

因为当我们
确保市场公平运作时

,企业就会根据优点进行竞争

,这有助于建立
我们作为公民所需的信任,让我们

感到舒适和掌控,

以及允许
我们的社会工作。

因为没有信任,
一切都会变得更加艰难。

只是为了过我们的日常生活,
我们需要信任陌生人

,信任为我们存钱的银行、为

我们建造房屋的建筑商、

来修理电线的电工、

在我们生病时为我们治疗的医生,

更别说
路上的其他司机了

,谁都知道他们疯了。

然而,我们必须相信他们

会做正确的事。

问题是
,我们的社会发展

得越多,信任就变得越重要

,建立起来就越困难。

这是现代社会的一个悖论。

当技术改变
我们互动的方式时尤其如此。

当然,在某种程度上,
技术可以帮助我们

通过评级系统和

其他支持共享经济的系统建立彼此的信任。

但是,当技术

要求我们
不要信任他人

而是信任算法和计算机时,技术也会带来全新的挑战。

当然,我们都看到
、分享和欣赏

新技术可以为我们带来的所有好处。

这很好。

自动驾驶汽车可以赋予
残疾人新的独立性。

它可以节省我们所有的时间,

并且可以
更好地利用资源。

依赖于处理
大量数据的算法

可以使我们的
医生为我们提供更好的治疗,

以及许多其他事情。

但是,除非他们信任与他们打交道的公司,否则没有人会
交出他们的医疗数据

或踏入
由算法驱动的

汽车。

而且这种信任并不总是存在的。

例如,今天,
不到四分之一的欧洲人

信任在线企业
来保护他们的个人信息。

但是,如果人们

知道他们可以
依靠科技

公司公平对待他们呢?

如果他们知道这些公司

对竞争
的反应是试图做得更好

,试图更好地为消费者服务,

而不是利用他们的权力

将竞争对手拒之门外,

例如,将他们的

服务推到搜索结果列表的下方,

并推广 他们自己?

如果他们
知道遵守规则

是在设计上内置于算法中的,

算法必须

在他们被允许工作之前去竞争规则学校

,这些算法的

设计方式
意味着他们不能 勾结

,他们不能

在他们正在工作的黑匣子中组建自己的小卡特尔?

与监管一起,

竞争规则可以做到这一点。

它们可以帮助我们

确保新技术公平对待人们

,并且每个人都可以
在公平的竞争环境中竞争。

这可以帮助

我们建立真正的

创新蓬勃发展

和社会为公民发展所需的信任。

因为不能强加信任。

它必须赢得。

自从 60 年前
欧盟成立之初,

我们的竞争规则就

帮助建立了这种信任。

很多事情都变了。

很难说
这六位代表

会用智能手机做什么。

但是在当今世界

以及他们的世界中,

竞争使
市场为每个人服务。

这就是为什么我

相信真正和公平的竞争

在建立我们需要的信任

以使我们的社会变得最好方面发挥着至关重要的作用,

而这始于执行我们的规则,

实际上只是为了
让市场为每个人服务。

谢谢你。

(掌声)

Bruno Giussani:谢谢。

谢谢你,局长。

玛格丽特·维斯塔格:很高兴。

BG:我想问你两个问题。

第一个是关于数据的,
因为我的印象

是技术和数据正在
改变竞争的

发生方式以及竞争监管
的设计和执行方式。

你能对此发表评论吗?

MV:嗯,是的,这绝对是
对我们的挑战,

因为我们既要磨砺我们的工具

,又要开发新工具。

当我们查看
Google

对我们的反对声明的回应时,

我们正在查看
5.2 TB 的数据。

这是相当多的。

所以我们必须建立新的系统。

我们必须弄清楚如何做到这一点,

因为
你不能像几年前那样工作。

因此,我们肯定
在改进我们的工作方法。

另一件事
是我们试图

区分不同类型的数据,

因为有些数据非常有价值

,它们会形成,比如,
进入市场的障碍。

你可以做的其他事情——
它明天就会失去价值。

因此,我们努力

确保我们永远不会低估这样一个事实

,即数据
在市场上是一种货币

,是一种可能
成为竞争真正障碍的资产。

BG:谷歌。 几个月前你对他们罚款
28 亿欧元。

MV:不,那是美元。
这几天没那么强了。

BG:啊,嗯,取决于——

(笑声)

谷歌对这个案子提出上诉。
此案将上庭。

它会持续一段时间。

去年早些时候,你要求苹果公司
补缴 130 亿美元的税款,

到目前为止,你还
调查了其他公司,

包括欧洲和俄罗斯公司,

而不仅仅是美国公司。

然而,
对美国公司

的调查是
最受关注的

,也引起了
一些指责。

从本质上讲,你被指责
为保护主义、嫉妒,

或利用
立法反击

已经征服欧洲市场的美国公司。

本周《经济学人》
在头版上写道,

“维斯塔格与山谷”。

你对此有何反应?

MV:嗯,首先,
我非常认真地对待它,

因为偏见
在执法中没有空间。

我们必须
用证据、事实

和判例

来证明我们的案件,以便将其提交给法院。

第二件事
是欧洲对商业开放,

但对逃税不开放。

(掌声

)问题是我们正在改变

,例如,
当我问我的女儿——

她们也使用谷歌——

“你们为什么要那样做?”

他们说,“嗯,因为它有效。
这是一个非常好的产品。”

他们永远不会
想出答案,

“因为它是美国产品。”

这只是因为它有效。

这当然是应该的。

但同样重要的
是,有人照顾说:

“好吧,我们祝贺

你成长,成长再成长,

如果我们发现你

滥用职权伤害竞争对手,
那么祝贺就停止了,以至于他们不能 为消费者服务。”

BG:这将是
一个引人入胜的案例。

感谢您来到 TED。

MV:很高兴。 非常感谢。

(掌声)