Ballroom dance that breaks gender roles Trevor Copp and Jeff Fox

(Music)

(Applause)

Trevor Copp: When “Dancing With the Stars”
first hit the airwaves,

that is not what it looked like.

(Laughter)

Jeff and I were full-time
ballroom dance instructors

when the big TV ballroom revival hit,

and this was incredible.

I mean, one day we would say “foxtrot,”

and people were like “Foxes trotting.”

(Laughter)

And the next day they were telling us

the finer points of a good feather step.

And this blew our minds.

I mean, all of the ballroom dance
geeking out that we had always done

on why salsa worked differently
than the competitive rumba

and why tango traveled unlike the waltz,

all of that just hit
the public consciousness,

and it changed everything.

But running parallel to this excitement,

the excitement that suddenly,
somehow, we were cool –

(Laughter)

there was also this reservation.

Why this and why now?

Jeff Fox: When Trevor and I
would get together for training seminars

or just for fun,

we’d toss each other around, mix it up,

take a break from having
to lead all the time.

We even came up with a system
for switching lead and follow

while we were dancing,

as a way of taking turns and playing fair.

It wasn’t until we used that system
as part of a performance

in a small festival

that we got an important tap
on the shoulder.

Lisa O’Connell, a dramaturge
and director of a playwright center,

pulled us aside after the show and said,

“Do you have any idea
how political that was?”

(Laughter)

So that began an eight-year
collaboration to create a play

which not only further developed
our system for switching

but also explored the impact
of being locked into a single role,

and what’s worse,

being defined by that single role.

TC: Because, of course,

classic Latin and ballroom dancing
isn’t just a system of dancing;

it’s a way of thinking, of being,

of relating to each other

that captured a whole period’s values.

There’s one thing that stayed
consistent, though:

the man leads

and the woman follows.

So street salsa, championship tango,
it’s all the same –

he leads, she follows.

So this was gender training.

You weren’t just learning to dance –

you were learning to “man” and to “woman.”

It’s a relic.

And in the way of relics,
you don’t throw it out,

but you need to know
that this is the past.

This isn’t the present.

It’s like Shakespeare:
respect it, revive it – great!

But know that this is history.

This doesn’t represent how we think today.

So we asked ourselves:

If you strip it all down,

what is at the core of partner dancing?

JF: Well, the core principle
of partner dancing

is that one person leads,
the other one follows.

The machine works the same,
regardless of who’s playing which role.

The physics of movement doesn’t really
give a crap about your gender.

(Laughter)

So if we were to update the existing form,

we would need to make it
more representative

of how we interact here, now, in 2015.

When you watch ballroom,
don’t just watch what’s there.

Watch what’s not.

The couple is always
only a man and a woman.

Together.

Only.

Ever.

So, same-sex and gender nonconformist
couples just disappear.

In most mainstream international
ballroom competitions,

same-sex couples are rarely
recognized on the floor,

and in many cases,

the rules prohibit them completely.

TC: Try this: Google-image,
“professional Latin dancer,”

and then look for an actual Latino person.

(Laughter)

You’ll be there for days.

What you will get is page after page
of white, straight Russian couples

spray-tanned to the point of mahogany.

(Laughter)

There are no black people,
there are no Asians,

no mixed-race couples,

so basically, non-white people
just disappeared.

Even within the white-straight-
couple-only paradigm –

she can’t be taller,

he can’t be shorter.

She can’t be bolder,

he can’t be gentler.

If you were to take a ballroom dance

and translate that into a conversation

and drop that into a movie,

we, as a culture,
would never stand for this.

He dictates, she reacts.

No relationship – gay,
straight or anything –

that we would regard as remotely healthy
or functional looks like that,

and yet somehow,

you put it on prime time,
you slap some makeup on it,

throw the glitter on, put it out there
as movement, not as text,

and we, as a culture,

tune in and clap.

We are applauding our own absence.

Too many people have disappeared
from partner dancing.

(Music)

(Applause)

JF: Now, you just saw
two men dancing together.

(Laughter)

And you thought it looked …

a little strange.

Interesting – appealing, even –

but a little bit odd.

Even avid followers of the same-sex
ballroom circuit can attest

that while same-sex partner dancing
can be dynamic and strong and exciting,

it just doesn’t quite seem to fit.

Aesthetically speaking,

if Alida and I take the classic
closed ballroom hold …

this is considered beautiful.

(Laughter)

But why not this?

(Laughter)

See, the standard image that the leader
must be larger and masculine

and the follower smaller and feminine –

this is a stumbling point.

TC: So we wanted to look at this
from a totally different angle.

So, what if we could keep
the idea of lead and follow

but toss the idea that this
was connected to gender?

Further, what if a couple
could lead and follow each other

and then switch?

And then switch back?

What if it could be like a conversation,

taking turns listening and speaking,
just like we do in life?

What if we could dance like that?

We call it “Liquid Lead Dancing.”

JF: Let’s try this with a Latin dance,

salsa.

In salsa, there’s a key transitional step,
called the cross-body lead.

We use it as punctuation
to break up the improvisation.

It can be a little tricky to spot
if you’re not used to looking for it,

so here it is.

One more time for the cheap seats.

(Laughter)

And here’s the action one more time,

nice and slow.

Now, if we apply liquid-lead thinking
to this transitional step,

the cross-body lead becomes a point

where the lead and the follow can switch.

The person following can elect
to take over the lead,

or the person leading can choose
to surrender it,

essentially making it
a counter-cross-body lead.

Here’s how that looks in slow motion.

And here’s how it looked
when we danced it in the opening dance.

With this simple tweak,
the dance moves from being a dictation

to a negotiation.

Anyone can lead. Anyone can follow.

And more importantly,
you can change your mind.

Now, this is only one example
of how this applies,

but once the blinkers come off,
anything can happen.

TC: Let’s look at how Liquid Lead thinking
could apply to a classic waltz.

Because, of course,

it isn’t just a system of switching leads;

it’s a way of thinking

that can actually make
the dance itself more efficient.

So: the waltz.

The waltz is a turning dance.

This means that for the lead,

you spend half of the dance
traveling backwards,

completely blind.

And because of the follower’s position,

basically, no one can see
where they’re going.

(Laughter)

So you’re out here on the floor,

and then imagine that coming right at you.

JF: Raaaaaah!

(Laughter)

TC: There are actually a lot
of accidents out there

that happen as a result
of this blind spot.

But what if the partners
were to just allow for

a switch of posture for a moment?

A lot of accidents could be avoided.

Even if one person led the whole dance
but allowed this switch to happen,

it would be a lot safer,

while at the same time,
offering new aesthetics into the waltz.

Because physics doesn’t give a damn
about your gender.

(Laughter)

JF: Now, we’ve danced Liquid Lead
in clubs, convention centers

and as part of “First Dance,”
the play we created with Lisa,

on stages in North America and in Europe.

And it never fails to engage.

I mean, beyond the unusual sight
of seeing two men dancing together,

it always evokes and engages.

But why?

The secret lies in what made
Lisa see our initial demonstration

as “political.”

It wasn’t just that we were
switching lead and follow;

it’s that we stayed consistent
in our presence, our personality

and our power, regardless
of which role we were playing.

We were still us.

And that’s where the true freedom lies –

not just the freedom to switch roles,

but the freedom from being defined
by whichever role you’re playing,

the freedom to always remain
true to yourself.

Forget what a lead is supposed
to look like, or a follow.

Be a masculine follow

or a feminine lead.

Just be yourself.

Obviously, this applies
off the dance floor as well,

but on the floor, it gives us
the perfect opportunity

to update an old paradigm,
reinvigorate an old relic,

and make it more representative
of our era and our current way of being.

TC: Jeff and I dance partner dancing
all the time with women and men

and we love it.

But we dance with a consciousness
that this is a historic form

that can produce silence
and produce invisibility

across the spectrum of identity
that we enjoy today.

We invented Liquid Lead

as a way of stripping out
all the ideas that don’t belong to us

and taking partner dancing back
to what it really always was:

the fine art of taking care of each other.

(Music)

(Applause)

(音乐)

(掌声)

Trevor Copp:当《与星共舞》
第一次播出时

,它不是它的样子。

(笑声) 当大型电视舞厅复兴时,

杰夫和我是全职的
交际舞教练

,这太不可思议了。

我的意思是,有一天我们会说“狐步舞”

,人们就像“狐狸小跑”。

(笑声

) 第二天他们告诉我们

一个好的羽毛步骤的细节。

这让我们大吃一惊。

我的意思是,所有的
交际舞,我们一直在做的

关于为什么萨尔萨
舞与竞争性伦巴舞不同

,为什么探戈舞不像华尔兹,

所有这些都触动
了公众的意识

,它改变了一切。

但与这种兴奋并行的是

,突然间,
不知何故,我们很酷的兴奋——

(笑声)

也有这种保留。

为什么是这个,为什么是现在?

杰夫福克斯:当特雷弗和
我聚在一起参加培训研讨会

或只是为了好玩时,

我们会互相折腾,混合在一起,

从不得不一直领导的状态中休息一下

我们甚至想出了一个在我们跳舞时
切换领先和跟随的系统

作为轮流和公平竞争的一种方式。

直到我们在一个小型音乐节上使用该系统
作为表演的一部分

,我们才得到了重要
的支持。

剧作家兼剧作家中心导演丽莎·奥康奈尔(Lisa O’Connell)

在演出结束后把我们拉到一边说:

“你知道那
有多政治吗?”

(笑声)

于是开始了为期八年的
合作,创造了一部戏剧

,不仅进一步发展
了我们的转换系统,

而且探索
了被锁定在单一角色中的影响,

更糟糕的是,

被单一角色所定义。

TC:因为,当然,

经典的拉丁舞和
交际舞不仅仅是一种舞蹈系统;

这是一种思维方式、存在方式

、相互关联的方式

,它捕捉了整个时期的价值观。

不过,有一件事保持
一致

:男人领先

,女人跟随。

所以街头萨尔萨舞,冠军探戈
,都是一样的——

他带头,她跟着。

所以这是性别培训。

你不只是在学习跳舞——

你在学习“男人”和“女人”。

是遗物。

而在遗物的方式上,
你不要扔掉,

但你要知道
,这已经是过去了。

这不是现在。

就像莎士比亚:
尊重它,重振它——太棒了!

但要知道这是历史。

这并不代表我们今天的想法。

所以我们问自己:

如果你把它全部拆开,

舞伴舞的核心是什么?

JF:嗯,舞伴舞的核心原则

是一个人带头
,一个人跟随。

无论谁扮演哪个角色,这台机器的工作原理都是一样
的。

运动的物理学并没有真正
说明你的性别。

(笑声)

所以如果我们要更新现有的表格,

我们需要让它
更能

代表我们现在在 2015 年的互动方式。

当你看舞厅时,
不要只看那里有什么。

看什么不是。

这对夫妻永远
只有一男一女。

一起。

仅有的。

曾经。

因此,同性和性别不循规蹈矩的
夫妇就这样消失了。

在大多数主流的国际
舞厅比赛中,

同性伴侣很少
在场上得到认可,

而且在很多情况下

,规则完全禁止他们。

TC:试试这个:谷歌图片,
“专业拉丁舞者”

,然后寻找一个真正的拉丁裔人。

(笑声)

你会在那里好几天。

你会得到一页又一页
的白色、直率的俄罗斯夫妇,它们被

喷晒到桃花心木的程度。

(笑声)

没有黑人,
没有亚洲人,

没有混血儿,

所以基本上,非白人
就消失了。

即使在仅限白人异性
恋的范式中——

她不能更高,

他不能更矮。

她不能大胆,

他不能温柔。

如果您要参加交际舞

并将其转化为对话

并将其放入电影中

,那么作为一种文化,我们
将永远不会支持这一点。

他发号施令,她作出反应。

没有任何关系——同性恋、
异性恋或其他任何关系

——我们会认为这种关系看起来有点健康
或实用

,但不知何故,

你把它放在黄金时段,
你给它化妆,

涂上闪光,熄灭它 那里
是运动,而不是文本

,我们,作为一种文化,

收听并鼓掌。

我们为自己的缺席鼓掌。

太多的人
从舞伴舞中消失了。

(音乐)

(掌声)

JF:现在,你刚刚看到
两个男人一起跳舞。

(笑声

) 你觉得它看起来

……有点奇怪。

有趣——吸引人,甚至——

但有点奇怪。

即使是同性
舞厅巡回赛的狂热追随者也可以证明

,虽然同性伴侣的舞蹈
可以充满活力、强大和令人兴奋,

但它似乎并不完全适合。

从美学上讲,

如果我和阿丽达采取经典的
封闭式舞厅举行……

这被认为是美丽的。

(笑声)

但为什么不这样呢?

(笑声)

看,领导者
必须大而阳刚

,追随者小而女性的标准形象——

这是一个绊脚石。

TC:所以我们想
从一个完全不同的角度来看待这个问题。

那么,如果我们可以保持
领先和跟随

的想法,但抛开这与性别有关的想法
呢?

此外,如果一对夫妇
可以互相领导和跟随

,然后切换呢?

然后转回来?

如果它可以像对话一样,

轮流听和说,
就像我们在生活中所做的那样?

如果我们可以这样跳舞呢?

我们称之为“液体铅舞”。

JF:让我们用拉丁舞试试这个,

萨尔萨舞。

在萨尔萨舞中,有一个关键的过渡步骤,
称为交叉引导。

我们用它作为标点符号
来打破即兴创作。

如果您不习惯寻找它,发现它可能有点棘手,

所以就在这里。

再来一次便宜的座位。

(笑声

) 这又是一次行动,

又好又慢。

现在,如果我们将液体引导思维应用
到这个过渡步骤

,交叉引导成为

引导和跟随可以切换的点。

跟随的人可以
选择接管领先,

或者领先的人可以
选择放弃它,

本质上使它成为
一个反斜体领先。

这是慢动作的样子。

这就是
我们在开场舞中跳舞时的样子。

通过这个简单的调整
,舞蹈从听写

转变为谈判。

任何人都可以领导。 任何人都可以跟随。

更重要的是,
你可以改变主意。

现在,这只是
如何应用的一个例子,

但是一旦闪光灯脱落,
任何事情都可能发生。

TC:让我们看看 Liquid Lead 的思想
如何应用于经典的华尔兹。

因为,当然,

它不仅仅是一个切换线索的系统。

这是一种思维

方式,实际上可以
使舞蹈本身更有效率。

所以:华尔兹。

华尔兹是一种转身舞。

这意味着对于领头羊,

你花了一半的
时间向后移动,

完全失明。

而且因为追随者的位置,

基本上没有人能看到
他们要去哪里。

(笑声)

所以你在场上,

然后想象它正向你袭来。

JF:啊啊啊!

(笑声)

TC:实际上有
很多事故

都是因为这个盲点而发生的

但是,如果合作伙伴

允许暂时改变姿势怎么办?

很多事故是可以避免的。

即使一个人带领整个舞蹈,
但允许这种转变发生

,也会安全得多,

同时
为华尔兹提供新的美学。

因为物理学根本
不在乎你的性别。

(笑声)

JF:现在,我们
在俱乐部、会议中心

和作为“第一支舞”的一部分,
我们

在北美和欧洲的舞台上与丽莎一起创作了这部剧。

而且它永远不会失败。

我的意思是,除了
看到两个男人一起跳舞的不寻常的景象之外,

它总是能唤起人们的注意和参与。

但为什么?

秘密在于让
丽莎将我们最初的示威

视为“政治”的原因。

这不仅仅是因为我们
改变了领先和跟随;

而是我们
在我们的存在、我们的个性

和我们的力量上保持一致,
无论我们扮演什么角色。

我们还是我们。

这就是真正的自由所在——

不仅是转换角色

的自由,还有免于被
你扮演的任何角色所定义

的自由,以及始终
忠于自己的自由。

忘记潜在客户
应该是什么样子,或者跟随。

成为男性的追随者

或女性的领导者。

做你自己。

显然,这也
适用于舞池之外,

但在舞池中,它为我们
提供

了更新旧范式、
重振旧遗物

并使其更能
代表我们时代和当前存在方式的绝佳机会。

TC:杰夫和我的舞伴
一直和女人和男人一起跳舞

,我们喜欢它。

但我们
意识到这是一种历史形式

,它可以


我们今天所享受的身份范围内产生沉默和隐形。

我们发明 Liquid Lead

是为了去除
所有不属于我们的想法

,让舞伴回归
到它的本来面目:

互相照顾的艺术。

(音乐)

(掌声)