The crisis of leadership and a new way forward Halla Tmasdttir and Bryn Freedman
Translator: Leslie Gauthier
Reviewer: Krystian Aparta
Bryn Freedman: So you keep
talking about leadership
as a real crisis of conformity.
Can you explain to us
what you mean by that?
What do you see as a crisis of conformity?
Halla Tómasdóttir:
I think it’s a crisis of conformity
when we continue to do business
and lead in the way we always have,
yet the evidence is overwhelming
that the world needs us
to change our ways.
So let’s look a little bit
at that evidence.
Science has told us
that we’re facing a climate crisis,
yet 40 percent of board directors
don’t think climate belongs
in the boardroom.
And we have kids marching
in the streets now,
asking us to be accountable
for their future.
We have a crisis of inequality.
We have Yellow Jackets
not just in the streets of France,
but all over the world,
and yet we continue to see examples
of businesses and other leaders
fueling that anger.
BF: Do you think
the pitchforks are coming?
HT: I definitely think
this is not sustainable.
And the reason why it’s so difficult
for us to deal with these complicated
crises that are interrelated
is that we are at the lowest levels
of trust we’ve ever been at.
In the UK, three percent of people
trust their government
to solve the Brexit crisis,
and that was in December.
I think it’s probably gone
down since then.
BF: What do you think
new leadership actually looks like?
HT: We need courageous leaders,
yet they have to be humble.
And they have to be guided
by a moral compass,
and the moral compass is the combination
of having a social purpose –
you can’t have your license
to operate anymore
without a purpose
that contributes to society,
but what, to me, has been missing
from that dialogue is a set of principles.
We cannot just define why we exist,
we have to define
how we’re going to do business
and how we’re going to lead.
And to us, that has to be
to solve these imminent crises:
the climate crisis,
the crisis of inequality
and the crisis of trust.
So at The B Team,
we embrace sustainability, equality
and accountability as our principles.
BF: Do you think this whole question
of purpose is really window dressing –
they’re saying what they think
people want to hear,
but they’re actually not making
the fundamental changes
that are necessary?
HT: A lot of people feel that way,
and I think there’s a growing
momentum behind that.
So I think the world is calling
for responsible leadership now,
and any leader who wants
to be around for the 21st century
really needs to start thinking
courageously and holistically
how they’re going
to be part of the solution
and not window-dress anymore.
You have to do it for real now.
BF: Do you see anybody
out there who’s doing it
in a way that you think
is actually effective
and has a real, long-term impact?
HT: Fortunately, we have
some great leaders out there.
And just to give one example,
Emmanuel Faber, who’s one of the newest
members of The B Team,
he’s the CEO of Danone,
the world’s largest yogurt-maker
and major food company –
a real global company.
He’s so committed to sustainability
that he’s not only changing the ways
of his own business,
but his entire supply chain.
He’s so committed to equality
that when he took on as CEO
and he said gender balance matters,
he created a gender-balanced
executive team
and gave men and women
equal maternity and paternity leave.
He’s so committed to accountability
that he turned his US operations
into a B Corporation.
Now many of you may not know what that is,
but that’s a company
that holds itself responsible
for not just profit but its impact
on people and the planet,
and transparently reports
on their performance on all of that.
It’s the largest B Corp in the world.
So to me, that’s holistic,
courageous leadership,
and it’s really the vision
we all need to hold.
BF: Is this “Back to the Future”?
I mean, I wonder,
when I think about companies –
Anheuser-Busch comes to mind in America –
a 100-year-old company
that invested in its community,
that gave a living wage
before it ended up, you know,
losing and getting sold.
Are we really looking now for companies
that are global and community citizens,
or is that something that is not
even useful anymore?
HT: Well, you can do this for the reason
that it’s risky, actually,
to continue without doing
the right thing now.
You can’t attract the right talent,
you can’t attract customers
and increasingly,
you won’t be able to attract capital.
You might do it for risk reasons,
you might do it for business
opportunity reasons,
because this is where the growth is,
which is why many leaders
are doing the right thing.
But at the end of the day,
we need to ask ourselves:
“Who are we holding
ourselves accountable for?”
And if that isn’t the next generation,
I don’t know who.
So I want to just make very clear,
because we tend to think about leadership
as only those who sit
in positions of power.
To me, leadership is not at all like that.
There’s a leader inside
every single one of us,
and our most important work in life
is to release that leader.
And I think one of the greatest
global examples we have
of someone who didn’t –
no one gave her power –
is the 16-year-old girl
called Greta Thunberg.
She’s from Sweden,
and a few years ago, she really became –
she has Asperger’s,
and she became passionate
about our climate crisis –
learned everything about it.
And faced with the evidence,
she just felt so disappointed
in her leadership
that she started striking
in front of the Swedish parliament.
And now she has started a global movement,
and hundreds and thousands
of school kids are out in the streets
asking us to hold ourselves
accountable for their future.
No one gave her that authority,
and she now speaks to the leaders
of the world, heads of state,
and really is impacting the world.
So I really think that when we think
about leadership today,
it can’t be defined
to those in positions of power
though they have disproportionately
greater responsibility.
But all of us need to think about,
“What am I doing?”
“How am I contributing?”
And we need to release that leader inside
and actually start making
the positive impact
this world is calling for right now.
BF: But we have such
hierarchical leadership.
I mean, I understand what you’re saying –
it’s nice to release the leader inside –
but in these corporations,
the truth is, it’s extremely hierarchical.
What can companies do
to create less vertical
and more horizontal relationships?
HT: Well, I’m a big believer
and I’ve long been passionate
about closing the gender gap,
and I really believe gender-balanced
leadership is the way to go
in order to embrace a leadership style
that has been shown to be more powerful,
and that’s when both men and women embrace
both masculine and feminine values.
It actually is proven in research
that that’s the most
effective leadership style.
But I’m increasingly now thinking
about how we close the generational gap,
because look at these young children
in the streets around the world –
they’re asking us to lead.
Kofi Annan used to say,
“You’re never too young to lead.”
And then he would add,
“Or too old to learn.”
And I think we have now entered this era
where we need the wisdom
of those with experience,
but we need the digital natives
of the young generation
to co-mentor or to mentor us
just as much as we can help
with wisdom from the older people.
So it’s a new reality,
and these old, sort of hierarchical
ways to think about things,
they’re increasingly coming
under pressure in this reality.
BF: And you’ve actually called
that the hubris syndrome.
Can you talk about that?
HT: Well, yes, I think hubris
is our cancer in leadership.
That’s when leaders
think they know it all,
can do it all, have all the answers
and don’t think they need
to surround themselves
with people who will make them better,
which to me would, in some cases,
be more women and younger people
and people who are diverse
and have different opinions in general.
Hubris syndrome is so present
in leadership still,
and we know many examples of them,
I don’t need to name them.
And the problem with that –
(Laughter)
Yeah, we know them – all over the world,
not just in this country.
But that kind of leadership
doesn’t unleash leaders in others.
No one person,
or no one sector even has the solutions
we now need to come up with –
the creativity and collaboration we need.
The bold and the brave leadership
we need to come up with solutions
that cross government, private sector,
civil society, young people, older people,
people of all different backgrounds
coming together is the way
to solve the issues
that are in front of us.
BF: Do you see that kind of leadership
coming from the bottom-up
or the top-down,
or do you think a crisis
is going to force us
into a reexamination of all of this?
HT: Well, as someone who lived through
the most infamous financial meltdown
in my home country, Iceland,
I hope we don’t need another one
to learn or to wake up.
But I do see that we can’t choose
one or the other.
We do have to transform the way we lead –
from the top, the boardroom, the CEOs –
we really do have to transform that,
but increasingly, we will transform that,
because we have these social
movements coming from the bottom
and throughout society.
And the solutions exist.
The only thing that’s missing is will.
So if we just all find a way to embrace
a moral compass of our own
to figure out why we exist
and how we’re going to lead,
and if we embrace courage
and humility in equal amounts,
each one of us can be part
of this 10-year period
where we can dramatically transform
the world we live in,
and make it just,
and make it about humanity
and not just the financial markets.
BF: Well, we have a lot of people here
who I bet have questions for you,
and we have a few minutes for questions,
so is there anybody that would like
to ask Halla a question?
Audience: Hello, my name is Cheryl.
I’m an aspiring leader,
and I have a question about how you lead
when you have no influence.
If I’m just an analyst,
and I want to speak to senior management
about a change that I feel
will affect the whole company,
how do I go about changing their minds
when they feel as if they’ve had
relationships that are set,
that their way of business is set?
How do you change minds
when you have no influence?
HT: Well, thank you very much
for that fantastic question.
So sometimes people
at the top won’t listen,
but it’s interesting that with the low
trust we have in society right now,
the greatest trust we have
is actually between the employee
and the employer,
according to recent research.
So I think that relationship
may be the most powerful way
to actually transform
the way we do things.
So I would start by trying to build
a coalition for your good idea.
And I don’t know a single leader today
who will not listen to a concern
that many of their employees hold.
I’ll give you an example
from another B Team leader,
Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.
He’s really been outspoken
on homelessness in San Francisco,
on LGBTQI rights,
and all of the things
that he’s been standing up for,
he does because his employees
care about them.
So don’t ever think you don’t have power
if you don’t sit in a position of power.
Find the way to go convince him …
or her.
And Marc, for example, was convinced
to close the gender pay gap by two women
who worked inside of his organization,
who told him, “We have a gender pay gap.”
He didn’t believe it;
he said, “Bring me the data.”
They did, and he was smart enough to know
he needed to do something about it,
and was one the first tech leaders
to step up and do so voluntarily.
So don’t ever think
that you don’t have power,
even if you don’t sit
in a position of power,
but find other people to support you
and make the case.
BF: Thank you.
Anybody else? Any other questions?
Audience: Hi, I’m overwhelmed
by fascination
with everything you’re saying,
so thank you.
I just wanted to ask how, like,
diversity in opinion and thought
and also background
has impacted your leadership ability.
And what do you think is the barricade
that is limiting the overflow of diversity
in all business settings,
and what do you think can impact
the change in that setting
but also to disrupt the overflow
of generations of people staying in place?
And what do you think is the next step
to breaking several glass ceilings?
BF: We’re going to do an entire Salon
just on that question.
(Laughter)
HT: I think Bryn said it well,
but let me try and touch on it.
So the way I see gender,
it is a spectrum –
you know, men also have gender.
We sometimes forget about that.
(Laughter)
We sometimes forget about that.
And I actually played a very masculine
woman early in my career,
because those were the rules of the game.
And I achieved some success with it,
but fortunately, I got to a place
where I started embracing
my feminine side as well.
But I would still say
that the best leaders embrace both,
both women and men.
But I see gender, also,
as one of the most powerful levers
to shift values in culture.
So the reason I’m so passionate
about women in leadership
and believe that balance is needed
is because right now, our definition
of success is incredibly masculine.
It’s about financial profit alone
or economic growth alone,
and we all know that we need
more than money.
I mean, we need wellness:
well-being of people,
and there is no future
beyond the well-being of our planet.
So I think gender may very well be
one of the most powerful levers
to help all of us shift
our economic and social systems
to be more welcoming.
And the answer to your last part –
it’s so complicated, but let me try
to give you a short one.
I believe that the way talent
and consumption is shifting
is going to increasingly get companies
to look at adding difference
into their leadership,
because sameness is not working –
BF: And difference is a superpower.
HT: Difference is a superpower.
BF: Thank you very much.
Halla, thank you so much,
I wish we could talk to you all day.
(Applause and cheers)
HT: Thank you.
(Applause)