Srdja Popovic How to topple a dictator

Translator: Joseph Geni
Reviewer: Morton Bast

Good afternoon, I’m proud
to be here at TEDxKrakow.

I’ll try to speak a little bit today
about a phenomenon

which can, and actually is
changing the world,

and whose name is people power.

I’ll start with an anecdote,

or for those of you
who are Monty Python lovers,

a Monty Python type of sketch.

Here it is.

It is December 15, 2010.

Somebody gives you a bet:
you will look at a crystal ball,

and you will see the future;
the future will be accurate.

But you need to share it with the world.

OK, curiosity killed the cat,
you take the bet,

you look at the crystal ball.

One hour later, you’re sitting
in a building of the national TV,

in a top show, and you tell the story.

Before the end of 2011,

Ben Ali, and Mubarak,
and Gaddafi would be down,

and prosecuted.

Saleh of Yemen and Assad of Syria

would be either challenged,
or already on their knees.

Osama bin Laden would be dead,

and Ratko Mladic would be in the Hague.

Now, the anchor watches you
with a strange gaze on his face.

And then, on top of it you add:

“And thousands of young people
from Athens, Madrid and New York

will demonstrate for social justice,
claiming they are inspired by Arabs.”

Next thing you know,
two guys in white appear,

they give you the strange t-shirt,

take you to the nearest
mental institution.

So I would like to speak a little bit

about the phenomenon which is behind
what already seems to be

a very bad year for bad guys.

And this phenomenon
is called people power.

Well, people power
has been there for a while.

It helped Gandhi kick
the Brits from India,

it helped Martin Luther King
win his historic racial struggle.

It helped a local, Lech Walesa,

to kick out one million
Soviet troops from Poland,

and in beginning the end
of the Soviet Union as we know it.

So what’s new in it?

What seems to be very new,

which is the idea I would like
to share with you today,

is that there is a set of rules and skills

which can be learned and taught

in order to perform
successful nonviolent struggle.

If this is true, we can help
these movements.

Well, the first one - analytic skills.

I’ll try where it all started
in the Middle East.

And for so many years,

we were living with a completely wrong
perception of the Middle East.

It was looking like the frozen region.

Literally a refrigerator.

And there were only
two types of meal there.

Steak, which stands for a Mubarak-Ben Ali
type of military police dictatorship,

or a potato, which stands for
a Tehran type of theocracies.

And everybody was amazed
when the refrigerator opened,

and millions of young,
mainly secular people

stepped out to do the change.

Guess what - they didn’t watch
the demographics.

What is the average age
of an Egyptian? 24.

How long was Mubarak in power? 31.

So, this system was just
obsolete, they expired.

And young people of the Arab world
have awakened one morning,

and understood that power
lies in their hands.

The rest is the year in front of us.

And guess what? The same Generation Y,

with their rules, with their tools,
with their games,

and with their language,
which sounds a little bit strange to me.

I’m 38 now.

And can you look at the age
of the people on the streets of Europe?

It seems that Generation Y is coming.

Now, let me set another example.

I’m meeting different people
throughout the world,

and they are, you know, academics,
and professors, and doctors,

and they will always talk conditions.

They will say: “People power will work
only if the regime is not too oppressive.”

They will say: “People power will work,

if the annual income of the country
is between X and Z.”

They will say: “People power will work
only if there is a foreign pressure.”

They will say: “People power
will work only if there is no oil.”

And, I mean, there is a set of conditions.

Well, the news here
is that your skills during the conflict

seem to be more important
than the conditions.

Namely, the skills of unity, planning,
and maintaining nonviolent discipline.

Let me give you an example.

I come from a country called Serbia.

It took us 10 years to unite
18 opposition party leaders,

with their big egos,
behind one single candidate

against the Balkan dictator
Slobodan Milosevic.

Guess what? That was
the day of his defeat.

You look at the Egyptians,
they fight on Tahrir Square,

they get rid of their individual symbols,

they appear on the street
only with the flag of Egypt.

I will give you a counter-example.

You see nine presidential candidates
running against Lukashenko,

you all know the outcome.

So unity is a big thing.

And this can be achieved.

Same with planning.

Somebody has lied to you

about the successful and spontaneous
nonviolent revolution.

That thing doesn’t exist in the world.

Whenever you see young people
in front of the row

trying to fraternize
with the police or military,

somebody was thinking about it before.

Now, at the end, nonviolent discipline.

And this is probably the game-changer.

If you maintain nonviolent discipline,

you’ll exclusively win.

You have 100,000 people
in a nonviolent march,

one idiot or agent-provocateur
throwing a stone.

Guess what takes all the cameras.

That one guy.

One single act of violence
can literally destroy your movement.

Now, let me move to another place.

It’s the selection
of strategies and tactics.

There are certain rules
in nonviolent struggle you may follow.

First, you start small.

Second, you pick the battles you can win.

It’s only 200 of us in this room.

We won’t call for the march of a million.

But what if we organized the spraying
of graffiti throughout the night,

all over Krakow.

The city will know.

So, we pick tactics
accommodated to the event,

especially this thing we call
the small tactics of dispersion.

They’re very useful in violent oppression.

We are actually witnessing the picture
of one of the best tactics ever used.

It was on Tahrir square,

where the international community
was constantly frightened

that, you know, the Islamists
will overtake the revolution.

What they organized –

Christians protecting Muslims
where they are praying,

a Coptic wedding cheered
by thousands of Muslims,

the world has just changed the picture,

but somebody was thinking
about this previously.

So there are so many things you can do

instead of getting into one place,

shouting, and you know, showing off
in front of the security forces.

Now, there is also another
very important dynamic.

And this is a dynamic
that analysts normally don’t see.

This is the dynamic between
fear and apathy on the one side,

and enthusiasm and humor on another side.

So, it works like in a video game.

You have the fear high,
you have status quo.

You have the enthusiasm higher,

you see the fear is starting to melt.

Day two, you see people
running towards the police

instead of from the police, in Egypt.

You can tell that something
is happening there.

And then, it’s about the humor.

Humor is such a powerful game-changer,

and of course, it was very big in Poland.

You know, we were just a small group
of crazy students in Serbia

when we made this big skit.

We put the big petrol barrel

with a portrait of Mr. President on it,
in the middle of the Main Street.

There was a hole in the top.

So you could literally come,
put a coin in,

get a baseball bat, and hit his face.

Sounds loud.

And within minutes,

we were sitting in a nearby café
having coffee,

and there was a queue of people
waiting to do this lovely thing.

Well, that’s just
the beginning of the show.

The real show starts
when the police appears.

(Laughter)

“What will they do?”

Arrest us? We were nowhere to be seen.

We were like three blocks away,
observing it from our espresso bar.

Arrest the shoppers, with kids?

Doesn’t make sense.

Of course, you could bet,
they did the most stupid thing.

They arrested the barrel.

And now, the picture
of the smashed face on the barrel,

with the policemen
dragging it to the police car,

that was the best day
for newspaper photographers

that they will ever have.

So, I mean, these are
the things you can do.

And you can always use humor.

There is also one big thing about humor,

it really hurts.

Because these guys really are
taking themselves too seriously.

When you start to mock them, it hurts.

Now, everybody is talking
about His Majesty, the Internet,

and it is also a very useful skill.

But don’t rush to label things
like “a Facebook Revolution,”

“Twitter Revolution.”

Don’t mix the tools
with the substance.

It is true that the Internet
and the new media are very useful

in making things faster and cheaper.

They also make it a bit safer
for the participants,

because they give partial anonymity.

We’re watching the great example
of something else the Internet can do.

It can put the price tag
of state-sponsored violence

over a nonviolent protester.

This is the famous group
“We are all Khaled Said,”

made by Wael Ghonim
in Egypt, and his friend.

This is the mutilated face of the guy
who was beaten by the police.

This is how he became known to the public,

and this is what probably became
the straw that broke the camel’s back.

But here is also the bad news.

The nonviolent struggle is won
in the real world, in the streets.

You will never change
your society towards democracy,

or, you know, the economy,
if you sit down and click.

There are risks to be taken,

and there are living people
who are winning the struggle.

Well, the million-dollar question.

What will happen in the Arab world?

And though young people
from the Arab world

were pretty successful
in bringing down three dictators,

shaking the region,

kind of persuading the clever kings
from Jordan and Morocco

to do substantial reforms,

it is yet to be seen
what will be the outcome.

Whether the Egyptians and Tunisians
will make it through the transition,

or this will end in bloody
ethnic and religious conflicts,

whether the Syrians
will maintain nonviolent discipline,

faced with a brutal daily violence
which kills thousands already,

or they will slip into violent struggle

and make ugly civil war.

Will these revolutions be pushed
through the transitions and democracy

or be overtaken by the military
or extremists of all kinds?

We cannot tell.

The same works for the Western sector,

where you can see
all these excited young people

protesting around the world,
occupying this, occupying that.

Are they going to become the world wave?

Are they going to find their skills,
their enthusiasm, and their strategy

to find what they really want
and push for the reform,

or will they just stay complaining
about the endless list

of the things they hate?

This is the difference
between the two paths.

Now, what do the statistics have?

My friend Maria Stephan’s book

talks a lot about violent
and nonviolent struggle,

and there are some shocking data.

If you look at the last 35 years
and different social transitions,

from dictatorship to democracy,

you will see that,
out of 67 different cases,

in 50 of these cases
it was nonviolent struggle

which was the key power.

This is one more reason
to look at this phenomenon,

this is one more reason
to look at Generation Y.

Enough for me to give them credit,

and hope that they will find their skills
and their courage

to use nonviolent struggle

and thus fix at least a part of the mess
our generation is making in this world.

Thank you.

(Applause)

译者:Joseph Geni
审稿人:Morton Bast

下午好,我
很荣幸来到 TEDxKrakow。

今天我将尝试谈谈一个

可以而且实际上正在
改变世界的现象

,它的名字是人民的力量。

我将从一个轶事开始,

或者对于那些喜欢
Monty Python 的人来说

,Monty Python 类型的草图。

这里是。

现在是2010年12月15日,

有人给你打赌:
你会看到一个水晶球

,你会看到未来;
未来将是准确的。

但你需要与世界分享它。

好吧,好奇心害死猫,
你打赌,

你看看水晶球。

一小时后,你坐在
国家电视台的大楼里,

在一场顶级节目中,你讲述了这个故事。

在 2011 年底之前,

本阿里、穆巴拉克
和卡扎菲将被下台

并被起诉。

也门的萨利赫和叙利亚的阿萨德

要么受到挑战,
要么已经屈服。

奥萨马·本·拉登将死去

,拉特科·姆拉迪奇将在海牙。

现在,主播
用一种奇怪的目光注视着你。

然后,除此之外,您还补充说:


来自雅典、马德里和纽约的数千名年轻人

将为社会正义进行示威,
声称他们受到了阿拉伯人的启发。”

接下来你知道,
两个白衣人出现,

他们给你一件奇怪的T恤,

带你去最近的
精神病院。

所以我想谈谈

对坏人来说已经是非常糟糕的一年背后的现象。

而这种现象
被称为人民力量。

嗯,人民的力量
已经存在了一段时间。

它帮助甘地
将英国人赶出印度

,帮助马丁路德金
赢得了历史性的种族斗争。

它帮助当地人莱赫·瓦文萨(Lech Walesa)从波兰

驱逐了 100 万
苏联军队,

并开始了
我们所知道的苏联的终结。

那么它有什么新东西呢?

似乎很新,

这就是我
今天想与大家分享的想法,

是有一套规则和

技能可以学习和教授

,以进行
成功的非暴力斗争。

如果这是真的,我们可以帮助
这些运动。

好吧,第一个 - 分析技能。

我会尝试一切从中东开始的地方

这么多年来,

我们生活在对中东完全错误的
看法中。

它看起来像冰冻的地区。

顾名思义就是冰箱。

那里只有
两种饭菜。

牛排,代表穆巴拉克-本阿里
式的宪兵专政,

或土豆,
代表德黑兰式的神权政治。

当冰箱打开时,每个人都感到惊讶

数以百万计的年轻人,
主要是世俗的人

走出来进行改变。

你猜怎么着——他们没有
看人口统计数据。

埃及人的平均年龄
是多少? 24.

穆巴拉克执政多长时间? 31.

所以,这个系统已经
过时了,它们已经过期了。

阿拉伯世界的年轻人
一天早上醒来

,明白权力
掌握在他们手中。

剩下的就是我们面前的一年。

你猜怎么着? 同一个 Y 世代

,他们的规则、他们的工具
、他们的游戏

和他们的语言,
这对我来说听起来有点奇怪。

我现在 38 岁。

你能看看
欧洲街头人们的年龄吗?

看来Y世代要来了。

现在,让我再举一个例子。

我在世界各地遇到了不同的人

,他们是,你知道的,学者
、教授和医生

,他们总是会谈论条件。

他们会说:“
只有当政权不太压迫时,人民的力量才会起作用。”

他们会说:“

如果国家的年收入
在 X 和 Z 之间,人民的力量就会起作用。”

他们会说:“人民的力量
只有在有外国压力的情况下才会起作用。”

他们会说:“
只有没有石油,人民的力量才会起作用。”

而且,我的意思是,有一组条件。

好吧,这里的消息
是,您在冲突中的技能

似乎比条件更重要

即,团结、计划
和维持非暴力纪律的技能。

让我给你举个例子。

我来自一个叫塞尔维亚的国家。

我们用了 10 年的时间将
18 名反对党领袖团结起来,

以他们的自负,
支持一位

反对巴尔干独裁者
斯洛博丹·米洛舍维奇的候选人。

你猜怎么着? 那
是他失败的日子。

你看看埃及人,
他们在解放广场上战斗,

他们摆脱了个人符号,

他们
只带着埃及国旗出现在大街上。

我给你举个反例。

你看到九位总统
候选人与卢卡申科竞争,

你们都知道结果。

所以团结是一件大事。

这是可以实现的。

与规划相同。

关于成功的自发的
非暴力革命,有人对你撒了谎。

世界上不存在这种东西。

每当你看到
排在前面的年轻人

试图
与警察或军队建立友好关系时,就

有人在考虑过。

现在,最后,非暴力纪律。

这可能是游戏规则的改变者。

如果您保持非暴力纪律,

您将完全获胜。

你有 100,000 人
参加非暴力游行,

一个白痴或挑衅者
投掷石块。

猜猜是什么拿走了所有的相机。

那个人。

一个单一的暴力行为
可以从字面上摧毁你的运动。

现在,让我搬到另一个地方。


是战略和战术的选择。

在非暴力斗争中,您可以遵循某些规则。

首先,从小处着手。

其次,你选择你能赢得的战斗。

这个房间里只有我们200人。

我们不会要求一百万的游行。

但是,如果我们整晚组织在
克拉科夫各处涂鸦会怎样

这个城市会知道的。

所以,我们选择
适应事件的战术,

特别是我们称之为
分散的小战术。

它们在暴力压迫中非常有用。

我们实际上正在目睹
有史以来使用过的最佳策略之一的画面。

正是在解放广场上

,国际
社会一直害怕

伊斯兰主义者
会赶上革命。

他们组织了什么——

基督徒
在他们祈祷的地方保护穆斯林,

一场由数千名穆斯林欢呼的科普特婚礼

,世界刚刚改变了局面,

但之前有人在
考虑这个问题。

所以你可以做很多事情,

而不是在一个地方

大喊大叫,你知道,
在安全部队面前炫耀。

现在,还有另一个
非常重要的动态。


是分析师通常看不到的动态。

这是
一方面恐惧和冷漠之间的动态,另一方面是

热情和幽默之间的动态。

因此,它就像在视频游戏中一样工作。

你有很高的恐惧,
你有现状。

你有更高的热情,

你会看到恐惧开始融化。

第二天,在埃及,你会看到人们
冲向警察

而不是从警察身边跑来。

你可以说
那里正在发生一些事情。

然后,它是关于幽默。

幽默是如此强大的游戏规则改变者

,当然,它在波兰非常重要。

你知道,当我们制作这个大短剧时,我们只是
塞尔维亚的一小群疯狂的学生

我们把上面

有总统先生肖像的大汽油桶放在
大街中央。

顶部有一个洞。

所以你真的可以来,
投入一枚硬币,

拿一个棒球棒,然后打他的脸。

声音很大。

几分钟之内,

我们就坐在附近的一家咖啡馆
喝咖啡

,人们排起了长队,
等着做这件可爱的事。

好吧,这只是
节目的开始。

当警察出现时,真正的表演开始了。

(笑声)

“他们会怎么做?”

逮捕我们? 我们无处可寻。

我们就在三个街区之外,
从我们的浓缩咖啡吧观察它。

逮捕带孩子的购物者?

没有意义。

当然,你可以打赌,
他们做了最愚蠢的事。

他们逮捕了枪管。

而现在,
枪管上那张被砸烂的脸

,警察
把它拖到警车上,


是报纸

摄影师们有史以来最好的一天。

所以,我的意思是,这些是
你可以做的事情。

你总是可以使用幽默。

幽默还有一件大事,

真的很伤人。

因为这些家伙真的
太把自己当回事了。

当你开始嘲笑他们时,会很痛。

现在大家都在
谈论陛下,网络

,这也是一个非常有用的技能。

但不要急于给
诸如“Facebook 革命”、

“Twitter 革命”之类的东西贴上标签。

不要将工具
与物质混合。

确实,互联网
和新媒体

在使事情变得更快、更便宜方面非常有用。

它们还使参与者更安全

因为它们提供部分匿名性。

我们正在观看
互联网可以做的其他事情的一个很好的例子。

它可以将
国家支持的暴力的价格标签

置于非暴力抗议者身上。

这是著名的乐队
“We are all Khaled Said”

,由
埃及的 Wael Ghonim 和他的朋友组成。

这是被警察殴打的那个人的残缺不全的脸

他就是这样被大众熟知的,

而这很可能
成为压垮骆驼的最后一根稻草。

但这里也有坏消息。

在现实世界中,在街头,非暴力斗争取得了胜利。 如果你坐下来点击一下,

你将永远不会改变
你的社会走向民主,

或者,你知道,经济

有风险要冒

,有活着的
人正在赢得斗争。

嗯,百万美元的问题。

阿拉伯世界会发生什么?

尽管
来自阿拉伯世界

的年轻人非常
成功地推翻了三位独裁者,

震动了该地区

,说服
了约旦和摩洛哥

的聪明国王进行实质性改革,


结果如何还有待观察。

埃及人和突尼斯人
是否会度过过渡期,

或者这将以血腥的
种族和宗教冲突告终,

叙利亚人是否
会保持非暴力纪律,

面对
已经造成数千人死亡的残酷的日常暴力,

或者他们会陷入暴力斗争

和 制造丑陋的内战。

这些革命会被推动
通过过渡和民主,

还是被军队
或各种极端分子所取代?

我们不能说。

西方领域也是如此,

在那里你可以看到
所有这些兴奋的年轻人

在世界各地抗议,
占领这个,占领那个。

他们会成为世界浪潮吗?

他们是要找到自己的技能
、热情和策略

来找到他们真正想要的东西
并推动改革,

还是会继续
抱怨无穷无尽

的他们讨厌的事情?

这就是
两条路径的区别。

现在,统计数据有什么?

我的朋友玛丽亚史蒂芬的书

讲了很多关于暴力
和非暴力斗争的内容,

其中有一些令人震惊的数据。

如果你看看过去 35 年
和不同的社会转型,

从独裁到民主,

你会发现,
在 67 个不同的案例中,其中

50 个
案例是非暴力斗争

,这是关键力量。

这是
关注这一现象的

又一个理由,这是
关注 Y 一代的又一个理由。足以

让我给予他们信任,

并希望他们能够找到自己的技能
和勇气

来使用非暴力斗争

,从而至少解决
我们这一代人在这个世界上造成的混乱的一部分。

谢谢你。

(掌声)