How interracial relationships are our power interview

[Music]

so i want to

i want to talk about um identities and i

didn’t share this with you initially but

this is also a personal act of mine

uh so i have a daughter who’s 20 uh aka

olivia okay the sugar bear

she’s a quarter romanian a quarter

russian ethiopian and african-american

with

jewish buddhist coptic and southern

baptist roots

and we should have gotten her a

therapist uh when she was born

yes we’ve given her a lot to work with

and yet uh when i think about you

perhaps we haven’t so may i read some of

your identities

sure um activist

the adopted kid afro brazilian brazilian

um latina latinx black artist

therapist child of hip-hop party

promoter transracial adoptee

performer futurist upon traveling back

to

brazil you were like oh snap i’m

actually american

[Laughter]

so i say i haven’t given the sugar bear

a lot to work with but of all those

identities

which of those that have really kind of

shaped who you are

as a woman as a scholar as an activist

you know which of those identities

no one identity um so i can’t see all of

you

it’s weird but i’m gonna keep looking

and hopefully it looks okay

um because i know you’re out there um

no one identity has shaped who i am and

i think that that

is the goal of my work

and my life um is to prove that um to

everybody

that there is no one part of ourselves

um there’s just

a lot of pieces of ourselves yeah um can

i ask perhaps

um to say what has been like um a

transracial adoptee or can you say more

about what that is

yeah um so

i didn’t want to give this particular

person like play when

this interview was going on and my my

partner and i joked that we would call

it

dolazalian but if you remember who that

dolezalian person is who was using the

word transracial

um it upset a lot of adoptees because

that’s

like our word that we’ve been using for

a very long time

to talk about being raised in families

where

uh your your parents are a different

race than you are

um and so that’s really what it means

um you know i’ve been really interested

in the idea of space

and i used to be terrified by it also

and um and then i realized this planet

is in space

and yeah it was like

i was like oh we’re space travelers yeah

we are um

and we want to put things on mars and on

other planets and yet we haven’t gotten

the space between us right and so

when you think about embodying an

interracial relationship

just within you um can you say more

about

the space between all kinds of people

and what’s the work that

you do needs to be done

everything that i like to think about is

centered on relationship because

in our bodies you know there’s a lot

happening right

because we are stardust and clay as

lucille clifton would put it

and because of that

when i first you know sort of thought

about my own identity

you know you think about it in

relationship to everybody you’re around

your family

your friends when you’re a child you

know all of those kinds of things

but you know when i really had to sit

and name myself and really think about

that

you know there’s so that battle exists

very much within our own bodies

as well and i think that for people who

are part of trans-racial families

people who are multiracial biracial um

you know and you know arguably that’s a

lot more than care to admit

and i think that that matters greatly

because you know we have been

you know very much our stories have been

really avoided

and from all sides and i think that

they’re avoided because we really do

embody that conflict and that fear

of what it means to truly be in

relationship

with all the complexities of ourselves

and all the complexities of those around

us

and so when people see people who they

can’t identify

quickly you know and i’m sure people in

the audience can relate to you know what

are you

um you know just very personal very

vulnerable questions very quickly

um and that’s because people are afraid

you know and we elicit that in people

and uh experiencing that identity is

complicated to say the least yeah well

what kind of wisdom is afforded to you

to be

in in the midst of whiteness and

blackness and

latino is and all the the things right

like what you must hold a place of

wisdom about

identity and how that works right

because you’re seeing it from many

different perspectives and

um and maybe a better offering is um

how you think about love so

sort of to the first point i think that

i see the world first as a black woman i

think

and i think that that has it has been my

salvation that part of me

and those people black women

um and anybody who identifies

uh as a black femme

has influenced me the most greatly

because that’s what has challenged me

and the people who have challenged me to

be my most authentic self

and my whole self and so

i think that that needs you know uh

recognized so thank you

all the black women all over the world

thank you very much yes

um all of you should be thanking black

women all over the world

we should probably get a bigger applause

than that i think

um yeah and i mean that i mean that very

sincerely um but it is the intersections

of that and

and being aware of those intersections

that has allowed me to move throughout

the world

in different ways and i think that the

the question is sort of split in two in

a lot of ways because you are

expected to um you know sort of pick

sides and we’ve heard these kinds of

ideas which of course are

are toxic for so many reasons and um you

know but we

are you know intersections you know of

lots of things

um and i you know i have

you know kimberly crenshaw who talked

about intersectionality to thank for

helping me to understand that and i have

plenty of other incredible

uh people to thank for helping me to

understand

all of those complexities that exist but

but the challenging part is really to

own it and i think that that’s where

the love part comes in because i’m not

sure

how we can fully learn to love ourselves

if we’re not asking these kinds of

challenging questions

you know when we think about who’s

othered

and right now i mean i’m up here because

i’m othered i’m up here because i’m

complicated and and that’s why i’ve been

invited here

and that’s why i do everything that i do

but

i think that it’s really important that

we challenge these ideas of otherness

and think about

how we are helping people to belong and

not belong from a place

you know in in our industry we call it

like trauma porn not like

not from a place where we’re like wow

look at all the things these people have

gone through

and you know where they are but really

thinking about it as

every single one of us every single

person here every single person that

we’ll interact with for the rest of our

lives

is complicated too and if we’re going to

think about belonging and who’s

belonging we need to think about

who’s othering and when that

question about love pops up for me and i

can’t remember

the particular quote so forgive me but

there is something that bell hook said

years ago in a book

um that she wrote all about love that

talked about

you know love saving you love can only

be your salvation if you want

saved if you want it and so i

i think that that for me personally has

really been

huge you know like in thinking about do

i want

do i want it and a lot of times i don’t

i’m scared

to death to want to love myself and to

love the people around me it’s very

scary

um and i think a lot of us are scared

which is why we don’t challenge each

other and we don’t ask the questions in

between

the lines and in between the spaces um

and we objectify

and fetishize um each other uh

particularly multiracial

uh people and you know i think that

challenging each other and asking those

questions to ourselves first

is really how we can start to

move humanity

forward and i think that humanity i mean

it’s going to stay

it’s always stayed black people are

still here so humanity has always been

here um but

you know it gets complicated from there

i suppose

um can i read a quote from our lord lord

and savior

that would be audrey lord

westing ourselves fighting the truths

between us

could you repeat that for me yeah

wasting ourselves

fighting the truths between us and you

talk about a lot of times

um this kind of holding multiple truths

yes um can you say more about that yeah

i think the greatest

lesson that i learned um is that two

things can be true at one time

it’s like the one thing that nobody

wants to um sort of own but it is so

it’s like the best thing that ever

happened to me

and i say it to myself all the time as a

reminder

you know that you know

i’m very critical of myself and i’m sure

there are people in the audience who can

relate to

to that experience um and most of us are

critical

of ourselves you know because we’ve been

traumatized or taught to

to be this way um to survive and

you know i think that we are constantly

battling these truths

within us right and and think you know

thank our

our lord lord thank you lord lord um

for for giving us this great gift of

helping us to

really see ourselves and others right as

these complicated uh

pieces most of the time when people are

fighting or arguing

or you know on a small level and also

when we’re talking about much larger

levels and even when we’re talking about

any intersections of oppression

you know patriarchy um well all about

you know white supremacist capitalist

patriarchy any of those intersections

um all of those intersections are really

there um at the same time and so none of

us are coming in contact

you know as one part of ourselves you

know at any time unless we

choose to do that you know unless we’re

making a conscious effort because

usually because somebody is oppressing

us and we’re unaware of it

to change pieces of who we are before we

we enter those spaces

and so really trying to understand that

and navigate

you know myself first and how i’m

entering places and spaces

um and what does that exist you know

what is that space between who i

am engaging with whoever it is um

that may or may be making me think about

holding pieces back about who i am

um and i think that that’s something

that everybody can relate to

you know and i think that we you know in

this in this country this is where we

are so we’ll speak

speak of that you know that’s something

that you know we’re

we’re founded on sort of this this

denial this very very great

denial and um and that when i think of

what audrey lord said there

that’s the denial piece and that’s

what’s gonna not kill me but i’ll kill

whoever’s denying so i don’t know

um well i have a question because you

talk about creativity

and what does creativity have to do with

building more compassionate

loving just worlds

so i think of creativity as the opposite

of

oppression um

creativity is what gets us

curious and oppression seeks to

stomp that space out of us

and and and i really want people to take

this idea when i’m saying these large

words

like oppression etc etc i am talking

about

you you know i’m talking about the

things that we do

together in moments face to face

where we aren’t allowing each other to

be our whole selves so please don’t you

know externalize

externalize this because i think that it

is something that sits very deep within

all of us and we all have the capability

of doing that

um hurting each other in that way and

that and that’s what makes me think of

children because often when we think of

creativity we think of children right

who gets to be creative what children

get to be creative what does that look

like

um and all of the ways that we stomp

creativity out of them

uh and then we continue to stomp that

creativity out every year that we you

know get older and then here we are

um and so i think of um allowing people

to be creative which means thinking

which means asking hard questions which

means

acknowledging that there’s two things

that are true at the same time

you know like i’m black and i’m

brazilian and i’m latina right and and

all of these things and allowing people

to come into every space

as that um is is really what

our creativity can allow us to do

but if we do not allow or believe that

we are creative

um at all then chances are we’re

probably stomping that out of others

and ourselves as well all right um

i want to um as we close out this

conversation

offer you something about time because

i’m really fascinated by time and the

fact that we

live in such small increments in

relation to the history of the universe

right which is 13.8 billion years old

and you know it took it yeah um

and the grand canyon uh it took 1.8

billion years to build it or to for it

to be created and i think i’ve tried to

do too

much with my life that’s how i feel i’m

just sitting here thinking about all the

things i didn’t say

well let me let me tell you about time

because at best

we might have thirty thousand days and i

looked at

your birthday which is uh may 9th 1984.

yeah tourist

i was a sophomore in high school uh you

currently as of today have used 12

993 days well that’s not pressure i

don’t know what it is yeah

and i currently have used 18 801.

so we can talk about time management

which i’m failing at

[Laughter]

um so perhaps you get 30

000 days how might you lead

your life to fully live those 30 the

rest of those days

and what could be the call to action to

this community

to do the work to build a more kind of

loving and compassionate

just world that sees multiple truths and

sees our complexities

well that’s the biggest question ever

but you’re living this is your this is

your life it’s the way you show up in my

life

um

i think that the most important thing

that we can do right now at this moment

is to deeply

reflect you know think about the person

sitting next to you

whether you know them or not and deeply

reflect

on how you’ve kept them safe or how you

have not kept them safe

and how you have allowed people like

them

to live full lives

and what actions have you taken

specifically

towards that vision

and i i think that the key to all of

this

is to not make it about that other

person’s

difference but to remember that you as

an individual belong

and that’s why they belong and that’s

why we need to

all fight for each other and our freedom

and justice

i love you very much did i do it

well thank you and let that be a call to

action to

fully love those near and dear

and strange to you thank you near and

dear and strange

to you indeed

[Applause]

[Music]

you

[音乐]

所以

我想谈谈我的身份,我一

开始并没有和你分享,

但这也是我的个人行为,

呃,所以我有一个 20 岁的女儿,呃,又名

olivia,好吧,

她是个糖熊 四分之一罗马尼亚人 四分之一

俄罗斯人 埃塞俄比亚和非洲裔美国人,

犹太佛教科普特人和南方

浸信会血统

,我们应该给

她找个治疗师

也许我们还没有,我可能会读到

你的一些身份,

当然,嗯,

活动家,被收养的孩子,非洲

裔巴西人,拉丁裔,拉丁裔黑人艺术家,

治疗师,嘻哈派对

发起人的孩子,跨种族收养

表演者,未来主义者回到

巴西后,你就像哦,我 我

实际上是美国人

[笑声]

所以我说我没有给糖

熊太多工作,但在所有这些

身份

中,哪些身份真正

塑造了你

作为女性作为学者作为活动家的身份

你知道哪些身份

没有一个身份,嗯,所以我看不到你们所有人

我和

我认为这

就是我工作

和生活的目标 嗯,嗯,就是向所有人证明,嗯

,我们自己没有一部分,我们

只有很多部分

就像一个

跨种族收养者,或者你能多

说一下那是什么,

嗯,所以当这次采访进行时,

我不想给这个特别的

人玩

,我和我的

搭档开玩笑说我们会称之为

dolazalian 但是如果你记得那个

dolezalian 人是谁,他使用了

跨种族这个词,

这让很多被收养者感到不安,因为

就像我们

长期以来一直

在谈论在

你父母的家庭中长大的词一样 和

你是不同的种族

嗯,这就是它的真正含义,

嗯,你知道我

对太空的想法很感兴趣

,我曾经也被它吓坏了

,然后我意识到这个

星球在太空

中,是的,就像

我一样 哦,我们是太空旅行者,是的,

我们是嗯

,我们想把东西放在火星和

其他星球上,但

我们之间的空间还不够好,所以

当你考虑在你的内心体现一种

跨种族关系时

,你可以吗? 多

谈谈

各种人之间的空间

以及你需要做的工作是什么

露西尔·克利夫顿(lucille clifton)会说

,因此,

当我第一次

了解我自己的身份时,

您知道您会考虑

与每个人的关系,您在

您的家人周围

您的朋友,当您还是个孩子时,您都

知道 这类事情,

但你知道当我真的不得不坐下

来命名自己并真正思考时

你知道那是因为

我们自己的身体内部

也非常存在战斗,我认为对于

那些属于跨种族家庭的人来说

多种族混血儿的人,嗯,

你知道,你知道这

比承认要多得多

,我认为这很重要,

因为你知道我们一直是

你非常清楚,我们的故事已经

真正被避免了

,从各个方面来看,我认为

他们之所以被避免是因为我们确实

体现了这种冲突以及

对真正

与我们自己

的所有复杂性以及

我们周围人的所有复杂性建立关系意味着什么的恐惧

,因此当人们看到他们

无法识别的人时

很快你就知道了,我敢肯定

听众中的人会和你产生共鸣 知道你

是什么

嗯,你很快就知道 非常私人的

非常脆弱的问题

嗯,那是因为人们害怕

你知道,我们引出,在人们中

,呃,经历这种身份

至少可以说是复杂

的 你必须对

身份以及它如何正确运作有一个智慧的地方,

因为你从许多

不同的角度看待它,

嗯,也许更好的产品是

你如何看待爱,

我认为我看到的第一点

作为一个黑人女性,我认为世界第一

,我认为这就是我的

救赎,我的一部分

和那些黑人女性

以及任何认为

呃是黑人女性的

人对我的影响最大,

因为那是挑战 我

和那些挑战

我成为最真实的自己

和完整的自己的人,所以

我认为这需要你知道,呃

承认,所以谢谢

全世界所有的黑人女性

,非常感谢你 是的

,你们所有人都应该感谢

全世界的黑人女性,

我们可能应该得到比

这更大

的掌声

那些让我能够

以不同的方式在世界各地移动的交叉点,我认为

这个问题在很多方面都被分成了两部分,

因为你

应该知道,嗯,你知道一些选择

方面,我们已经听说过这些 各种

想法当然

是有毒的,因为很多原因,嗯,你

知道,但我们

是你知道交叉路口,你知道

很多事情,

嗯,我你知道我有

你认识金伯利·克伦肖,他

谈到了交叉性,感谢你

帮助我 理解这一点,我还有

很多其他令人难以置信的

人要感谢他们帮助我

理解所有存在的复杂性,

但具有挑战性的部分是真正

拥有它,我认为这

就是爱 p 艺术之所以出现,是因为我不确定

如果我们不问这些

具有挑战性的问题

,我们如何才能充分学会爱自己

其他我在这里,因为我很

复杂,这就是为什么我被

邀请到这里

,这就是为什么我做我所做的一切,

我认为

我们挑战这些差异性的想法

并思考

我们是怎样的真的很重要 帮助人们归属和

不属于

你在我们行业中熟悉的地方,我们

称之为创伤色情片,而

不是来自我们喜欢的地方哇

看看这些人

经历过的所有事情

,你知道他们在哪里 但真正

考虑到

我们每一

个人在这里的每一个人,

我们将在余生中与之互动的每一个人也

很复杂,如果我们要

考虑归属感以及谁是

归属感,我们需要考虑 关于

谁是其他人 d 当那个

关于爱的问题突然出现在我面前,我

记得具体的引述了,所以请原谅我,

但是贝尔胡克

多年前在一本书中说过的话,

嗯,她写的所有关于爱的东西都

谈到了

你知道爱拯救你 爱只能

是你的救赎,如果你想得到

拯救,如果你想要它,所以

我认为这对我个人来说

真的是

巨大的

想要爱自己和爱我

周围的人,我害怕得要死,这非常

可怕,

嗯,我想我们很多人都很害怕

,这就是为什么我们不互相挑战

,也不问中间的问题

空间之间的界限 嗯

,我们客观化

和迷恋 嗯,

特别是多种族的

人,你知道,我认为

互相挑战并

首先向自己提出这些问题

确实是我们可以开始

推动人类

前进的方式,我认为 那个人类我 意思是

它会留下来

它总是留下来黑人

仍然在这里所以人类一直在

这里嗯但是

你知道它从那里变得复杂

我想

嗯我可以读一下我们的主和救世主的一句话

那将是奥黛丽·洛德·

韦斯特在战斗

我们之间的真相,

你能不能对我重复一遍,是的,

浪费自己

与我们之间的真相作斗争,你

说了很多次,

嗯,这种持有多个真相的人

是的,你能不能多说一些,是的,

我认为这是我学到的最重要的一

课 嗯,两

件事可以同时为真,

这就像没有人想要拥有的一件事,

它就像

发生在我身上的最好的事情

,我一直对自己说这件事作为

提醒

你知道你知道

我对自己非常挑剔,我相信

观众中有些人可以

与那种经历联系起来,嗯,我们大多数人都

对自己挑剔你知道,因为我们受到了

创伤 r 被教导要

以这种方式生存,

你知道我认为我们一直

在与我们内心的这些真理作斗争

,并且认为你知道

感谢

我们的主,感谢主,你

给了我们这个

帮助我们的伟大礼物

大多数时候,当人们在

打架或争吵时,

或者你在一个小层面上以及

当我们谈论更大的

层面,甚至在我们谈论

任何交叉路口时,真正将自己和他人视为这些复杂的呃部分 压迫,

你知道父权制,

你都知道白人至上主义资本主义

父权制任何这些交叉点,

所有这些交叉点都真的

存在,嗯,同时,所以

我们没有人接触

你知道作为我们自己的一部分你

知道 任何时候,除非我们

选择这样做,你知道,除非

我们有意识地努力,因为

通常是因为有人在压迫

我们,而我们没有

意识到改变我们是谁 在

我们进入这些空间之前

,我们真的试图理解

并导航

你首先了解我自己,以及我如何

进入地方和空间,

嗯,存在什么,你

知道我与谁交往之间的空间是什么,

这可能或可能让我考虑

隐瞒我是

谁,我认为这

是每个人都可以与

你联系的事情,我认为我们你知道

在这个国家这就是我们所在的地方

,所以我们 我会

说你知道那是你知道的事情

我们是建立在这种

否认这个非常非常伟大的

否认和嗯当我

想到奥黛丽·洛德在那里

说的那是否认的部分,这就是

什么 不会杀我,但我会杀了

任何否认的人,所以我不太清楚,

我有一个问题,因为你

谈论创造力

以及创造力与

建立更多富有同情心的

爱公正的世界有什么关系,

所以我认为创造力是操作

压迫的立场 嗯

创造力是什么让我们

好奇和压迫试图

踩踏我们的空间

,而且我真的希望人们

在我说这些大词时接受这个想法,

比如压迫等等我在说

你,你知道 我说的

是我们

在面对面的时候一起做的事情

,我们不允许彼此

成为我们的完整自我,所以请你不

知道

把它外化,因为我认为这

是非常深刻的事情 在

我们所有人中,我们都有

能力这样做,

嗯,以那样的方式伤害对方

,这就是让我想到

孩子的原因,因为当我们想到创造力时,我们经常

想到的孩子是对的

,谁有创造力孩子得到什么

要有创造力,这看起来像什么,

以及我们扼杀创造力的所有方式,

嗯,然后我们每年继续扼杀

创造力,我们

知道你会变老,然后我们就在这里

所以我认为嗯,允许人们

发挥创造力,这意味着

思考,这意味着提出尖锐的问题,这

意味着

承认有两

件事同时是真实的,

你知道我是黑人,我是

巴西人,我是拉丁裔 对,

所有这些事情,让

人们进入每一个空间,

因为这确实是

我们的创造力可以让我们做的事情,

但如果我们不允许或相信我们完全没有

创造力,那么我们很可能是

可能会从其他

人和我们自己身上踩出来,好吧,

我想,嗯,当我们结束这次

谈话时,会

为你提供一些关于时间的东西,因为

我真的很着迷于时间以及

我们

生活在如此小的增量

中这一事实。

138亿年前的宇宙历史

,你知道它花了是的

,大峡谷,呃,它花了18

亿年才建成或

创造出来,我想我已经尝试了

太多 用我的生命 这就是我的感觉,我

只是坐在这里想着所有

我没说

好的事情让我告诉你时间,

因为我们最多

可能有三万天,而我

看着

你的生日,嗯,1984 年 5 月 9 日 .

是的,游客,

我是一名高中二年级学生,嗯,你

目前已经使用了 12

993 天,这不是压力,我

不知道它是什么

,我目前已经使用了 18 801。

所以我们可以谈谈时间

管理 我在

[Laughter] 上失败了,

所以也许你有 30

000 天

时间,在剩下的日子里

,你如何度过这 30 天?

更多一种

充满爱心和同情心的

公正世界,它看到了多重真相并

很好地看到了我们的复杂性,这是有史以来最大的问题,

但你正在生活这是你的这就是

你的生活这是你出现在我

生活中的方式

我认为最重要的

我们现在可以做的事情 现在

是深入

反思你知道想想

坐在你旁边的人,

不管你是否认识他们,并深刻

反思你如何保护他们的安全,或者你

如何没有保护他们的安全

,以及你如何让像他们这样的人

过着充实的生活

,您

为实现这一愿景采取了哪些具体行动,

并且我认为所有这一切的关键

是不要谈论另一个

人的

不同,而是要记住您作为

一个个体是属于的

,这就是他们属于的原因,这就是

为什么 我们都需要

为彼此和我们的自由和正义而战

我非常爱你我做得好吗

谢谢你让这成为

行动的号召,

充分爱那些

对你来说亲近和陌生的人谢谢你亲近和

亲爱的

你真奇怪

[鼓掌]

[音乐]