The crucial role of hydrogen in Indias clean energy transition
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solving for the big energy challenges in
a large country like india means finding
cheap and non-polluting sources
doing so will take multi-disciplinary
and multi-dimensional approaches to
innovation and scale dr arie marshall
brings a unique approach to finding
sustainable energy solutions in his work
around green hydrogen
he combines the understanding of the
grand vision of scale of innovation on
production in his role as chairman of
reliance’s new energy council and in the
past leading council of scientific and
industrial research the biggest chain of
industrial r d centers and labs in india
and now he also has a ground-up view on
frugal innovation thanks to his
participation in many young energy
startups
so why is green hydrogen important and
why is it a must for a country like
india oh it’s very very important and
i’ll give you at least three reasons
the first is
we import 160 billion dollar worth of
energy
all right we have to reduce that import
bill
the
second is
that we are world’s third largest uh
carbon footprint creator
because we emit
something like 3.6 gigatons of carbon
dioxide so we have to bring that down
and also there is this particular
aspiration of creating 450
gigawatts of renewable energy by 2030
within next nine years and there again
green hydrogen will play a very very
critical role
right you know green hydrogen the sound
of it maybe for uh historical reasons
sounds dangerous is that so
yes as well when you talk about hydrogen
you think of hydrogen bomb it is nothing
like that
uh hydrogen is a fuel and therefore all
the precautions that you normally take
with any fuel will have to be taken but
hydrogen has some advantages for example
hydrogen is not toxic at all
secondly hydrogen is very light it is
one of the lightest elements
so even if there is a release it just
diffuses away uh disperses away
the other thing is that there has been a
lot number of years of industrial
practice
for hydrogen safety and also fuel cells
have been running uh for example for
more than a decade and therefore there
are safety protocols that have been
developed so i wouldn’t worry about the
hydrogen safety as long as the protocols
are followed and on a lighter note i
don’t mind saying that while you and i
were young
we did have the hydrogen balloons and we
have handled hydrogen right so it is
safe and that’s good to hear but the
other problem is that india cannot
afford green hydrogen at least the way
it is today so how do we make it
affordable so that a billion indians can
access it over time
excellent question because if it is not
affordable the billion engines cannot
have it
what are the current costs the current
costs of green hydrogen are like five to
six dollars per kg how much do we have
to bring it down to one to two dollar
per kg so substantial reduction is it
possible yes
through research through innovation
uh through
uh policy changes and a whole range of
other things for example
uh you look at the electrolyzer which
splits water okay
as the size of the electrolyzer goes up
the cost come down with scaling the cost
will come down that’s the first
the second
is uh
looking at the electrolyzer itself uh
you know the energy efficiency is little
low and therefore you generate waste
heat can you capture it
also when you split water you are
hydrogen and oxygen but we don’t give
any value to oxygen but that oxygen is
very pure medical grade
and don’t forget that one kg of
hydrogen produces at the same time eight
kg of oxygen
and
that oxygen can be sold at 60 piece per
kg so valorization of that then there is
a scope for improving the life of stack
to save 25 years
uh better efficiency
of
the membranes and whole range of other
systems and also the government policies
for example we might generate uh
electricity by using wind power in
ladakh
or
by run of kutch for example
uh the
you know where the sun shines and we
have plenty of land but there is no
consumption either in ladakh or cuts so
there is no point in generating hydrogen
there so you transfer it uh through the
grid uh the electricity to
uh
let us say vizag and generate hydrogen
there and then start exporting because
we have tremendous scope for exporting
green hydrogen to southeast so by all
these measures combined together we can
bring the cost down
from five to six dollars
to one to two dollars
per kg i feel confident it’s gratifying
in some ways to hear that oxygen is a is
a very important collateral
output of this process uh which of
course has uh the need for which has
been highlighted even more so in recent
times so you’ve always said dr martial
that you don’t believe in make in india
or assembled in india but in invented
indian india so now that’s good to hear
but do we really have that research and
innovation firepower to power this
hydrogen quest
yes of course
i’m dangerously optimistic about our
capacity in research and innovation
having spent all my life here and having
seen what we have been able to achieve
now as far as green hydrogen is
concerned there are three aspects the
first is production
second is distribution and third is
utilization and each of these we require
research and most importantly it is not
copying what the waste is done
but also doing something that is of a
role you know you mentioned about my
association with startups and so on so
there is one sentient labs for example
what they have done is very pertinent
for india
what they do is that they take
agri-waste for example we have 200
million tons of agreements by the way
and then
they have developed a breakthrough
process
for microbial conversion of that
aggregates into hydrogen now you can see
the impact of this
first and foremost
uh you have decentralized uh sort of uh
hydrogen uh generation because this
agribase is spread all over india
the second is that the farmer’s income
will go up by 30 000 rupees
uh per acre of that order that’s what
you require local jobs uh
will be created you can see the kind of
differences
these kinds of research i would say not
innovation but innovation particularly
important for a country like india and
if you look at the industrial
enterprises if you look at the csi labs
uh etc a whole range of
activities have been uh
done including fuel cells
uh and all other
sort of technologies which go in the
entire value chain so i feel very very
confident that
not just make in india but invent in
india and make it india has
to be the platform right and you’ve also
you know talked about how we need to go
beyond leap frogging which i recall is a
term that we used in telecom to pole
vaulting which uh sounds like it’s a
much bigger and a more quantum leap so
tell us about how that applies to
hydrogen or green hydrogen oh yes
you can just so you see first of all
watching the frog into poor party you
know frog lived just a few feet
basically because he’s afraid of the
predator
paul what the size of the pole
determines the size of your aspiration
and that is how we have to go
and for that you will require
technological and policy innovation
are put together let me give an example
we had this program on new millennium
indian technology leadership initiative
which has started in 2000 and 2006 we
launched a program on fuel cells okay
proton exchange uh
membrane fuses
today thanks to people like dr ashish
amazing leader
and uh other csr laboratories you know
ncl plus others we have now indigenous
for yourself which competes with the
best
uh in the world especially if you’ll say
let’s say three kw through five
now what can the government do
for policy
there are six hundred thousand mobile
towers in
india
and each one of them is fed by greed
also has a disgenerating state and that
digital generation is highly polluting
as you know so supposing government has
a policy intervention and says no
within one year within two years
all six hundred thousand will be
replaced by indigenous fields you know
what is the impact huge
it will be thousands of crores of
industry that will come up but more
importantly
look at the difference it will make
first and foremost
the carbon footprint will go down by
something like seven and a half million
metric tons
second
the
carbon dioxide
it will go down by 75 percent
nox
will go down by a similar amount
sulfur dioxide
will completely manage particulate
matter will go down by 80 but most
importantly because all the indigenous
components are manufactured in india
jobs will be created in india just with
a switchable policy had the government
done it before yes you look at uh
for example ujjala i mean look at
light emitting diodes you know within
seven years it’s a world record we moved
from 0.2 percent penetration to 88
penetration can you see the huge impact
on carbon footprint so i think it is a
combination of breakthrough technology
plus policy that can make a difference
uh last question uh dr marshall kurt so
as we think about this and maybe even
dream about it can i actually now think
about my own hydrogen powered car or
scooter
oh yes of course
yes on scooter kpit technology is doing
the work but as far the car is concerned
uh already last seven october if i
remember correctly last year uh there
was a demonstration you know
i mentioned about
the fearsome developed by national
chemical laboratory so they brought in
the electrochemical component and then
kpi2 technologies uh they brought in the
uh automatic electronics component uh uh
the rest of the automation etcetera and
together they have developed uh
already sort of a car a bus for example
uh for mass transit that has been
developed by
data motors in indian oil uh together of
course with them imported ballard
uh fuel cell but doesn’t have to be i
mean we can generate our own like i give
the other example so it is very much
there i think what we need go in
is as i said talent technology and trust
we must trust the developments
that we had and therefore our car is
ready our bus is ready we are ready to
ride
right we’re ready to write indeed that’s
a wonderful note to end dr mashirk thank
you very much for speaking with us thank
you thank you pleasure
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