Can history teach us how to avoid war between the US and China

[Music]

[Music]

i

got off the plane uh two days ago from

an intense week in china

if i look jet lagged shout at me and

i’ll wake up okay

i had a chance to talk and listen to the

leaders of the government

the academy think tanks business

community

and i can report to you that folks in

beijing

are almost as confused as people in

washington

and trying to understand what the hell

is going on

so from washington perspective

a country that for a generation

has been seen as a friend even a

strategic partner

is now officially classified as a quote

strategic adversary

a nation that president obama and before

him president bush and president clinton

tried to integrate into the global

community

is now seen as a threat as a disrupter

of the international order so what’s

going on

and what i’m going to try to do is

clarify as best i can what i think is

going on

and most importantly so what what

should we be doing to prevent this story

this rivalry

following the path that we’ve seen so

frequently

in previous history and what can people

like us do

to help think about this so

what i’m going to do is three things

first i’m going to present a

big idea i’m going to

resolve a prickly puzzle

and i’m gonna pose a cardinal challenge

the big idea is thrucidity strap

now i know thucydides is a mouthful

multi-syllabic

some people have difficulty pronouncing

it so who is this guy thucydides

and how do we pronounce his name one two

three thucydides

again one more time thucydides so if

nothing else today you can tweet or post

you met a great thinker you can

pronounce his name who was thucydides

he was the father and founder of history

he wrote the first ever history book

about

what happened in classical greece about

2500 years ago

and thucydides trap is a term

i coined a few years ago to make vivid

thucydides insight so thucydides insight

is that when a rising power like

athens or china today threatens to

displace a ruling power

like sparta or the u.s today

that creates a dangerous dynamic that

frequently ends in war real bloody

devastating war and then through city’s

famous line

it was the rise of athens and the fear

that this instilled in sparta

that made the war inevitable so that’s

lucidities and thucydides trap

now first i want to make a comment about

this trap

i find difficult because i even don’t

know how to pronounce its name

strap the thucydides trap thucydides

trap the thucidity’s trap

if it’s a disease trap okay so through

thucydides trap has entered the

bloodstream you now know who is

thucydides and what is lucidity strap

in my book i look at the last 500 years

of history i find 16 cases

16 times a rising power threatens to

displace a ruling power

12 of those cases end in war

four of those cases in the not war for

example

when spain rose to rival portugal

at about the time of christopher

columbus that ended in

no war the rivalry between us and the

soviet union

in the cold war ended in no war that is

no thousands of people being killed by

combatants

so to say that war between us and china

in this case is inevitable

would be wrong but to say that it would

be likely

would be correct one of the biggest

surprises

that came to me in the course of this

study

was that in most of the cases neither

the rising power nor the ruling power

wanted a war in few of the cases was the

war

initiated by either the rising power the

ruling power

so how does this happen and the answer

is

this rivalry creates a

level of misunderstanding and

misperception

that leaves both vulnerable to external

shocks

some third parties action or even an

accident

that then one of the other fields

obliged to respond to

that triggers a spiral of reactions that

drags them

to a place they don’t want to go the

classic case of this is world war one

in that case what happened so 1914

britain is the dominant power in the

world has been for 100 years

has an empire in which the sun never

sets

has a navy that’s ruled the waves for

100 years

germany is growing rapidly its national

economy overtakes

britain by about 1900 but both britain

and

germany do not want war with each other

in those circumstances in june 1914

a serbian assassin a terrorist

assassinates archduke franz ferdinand

just an accident the emperor

of us to hungary feels obliged to punish

the serbs

the russians uh feel obliged to come to

the support of this

of the serbs who are uh orthodox

christians

the french honor their military treaty

with the russians

the britons have gotten involved with

the french

so within six weeks all the nations are

caught up in a conflagration

at the end of which 25 million people

laid

in 25 million people

and in the flanders field

the poet puts it pointedly and you can

read that for yourself

where the puppies grow

three takeaways from this first you

don’t have to want war

to get war you may not be interested in

war but war may be interested in you

secondly at the end of world war one who

won

the answer was nobody everyone lost

every one of the leaders lost what he

cared about most

so the austro-hungarian emperor was

trying to hold together his empire

empire is dissolved he’s out russian

czar

his whole regime has been overthrown by

the bolsheviks

kaiser out france

bled of its youth for a whole generation

never really recovers as a great power

and britain which has been a creditor

for centuries

has turned into a debtor and on a slow

decline

uh from that from which they’ve not

recovered

so everyone lost and third

after the war one of the key players the

chancellor of germany

bateman was asked by a colleague well

how did you guys let this happen

and he said famously ah

if we only knew

so hold that thought ah if we only knew

john kennedy lived through a similar

crisis

like what happened in 1914 in what’s the

most dangerous

crisis in recorded human history the

cuban missile crisis

  1. in this event there was a face-off

between kennedy and khrushchev

the head of the soviet union kennedy

thought there was a one in three chance

that this would end in a nuclear war

that would have killed

uh hundreds of millions of people

fortunately

he had just two months earlier before

the crisis on vacation

read barbara tuchman’s wonderful little

book

called on world on world war one the

guns of august

and he determined and he was haunted by

bateman’s line

if we only knew so during the missile

crisis he kept looking over his shoulder

worrying that he wasn’t doing everything

he could conceivably do

to prevent this being the missiles of

october

that led to the third world war that

killed hundreds of millions of people

which it could indeed have done so

what to do what to do i’ve been on the

chase

since i sent this book to the publisher

three years ago

for how to escape through city’s trap

i’ve so far identified nine possible

avenues of escape

each one has pros and cons no one of

them seems to be yet compelling

so i’m hoping actually today to get some

further ideas i would like to have 10

11 12 13 and even after if you’re

thinking about it email me please

this first one actually came from a

viewer

of the first said talk i gave last

october

this is a lady who’s a student of

negotiation

and she said to me first in an email and

then in a conversation

in negotiation theory sometimes a good

technique

is to put the problem on one side of the

table

and the people who are negotiating on

the other side of the table

so externalize the problem identify

thucydides trap

and the vulnerability it creates for

dragging both parties to war

as the problem and then see how the two

parties

can work to prevent that happening well

what might that mean

is i suggest here in the first instance

it would be realism in recognizing

the vulnerability that comes from the

systemic

structural stress that china is going to

be rising and we’re going to be ruling

and that’s going to be friction so

recognize really

this is a rivalry that produces huge

risks

secondly ask ourselves what can we do to

prevent crises

that could drag us to war the two at the

top of my list right now are taiwan

and north korea and third recognizing

even if we do the best job we can

there still would be crises we should

prepare

be prepared for crisis crises to manage

them

so prepare for crisis management taiwan

is an especially dangerous situation

which you’ll hear more about in the next

10 months

as they run up to their presidential

election two of the key candidates right

now

are flirting with greater independence

for taiwan

china regards taiwan as unalterably

and unambiguously an integral part of

the chinese

landmass china is determined to fight

to prevent taiwan becoming independent

actually we’ve seen this story before in

1996 i was in the pentagon as an

assistant secretary of defense

a taiwanese president made small moves

towards independence

the chinese government responded

violently

by bracketing the island with missiles

which caused ships that were going to

the which are the lifeline to the

taiwanese island economy to stop going

because the military balance at the time

was overwhelmingly in america’s favor

the pentagon felt comfortable

recommending to president clinton

and i supported this and clinton decided

to move two u.s carriers up into the

area china was forced to back down

and what happened the day after that

from that day to this day china has been

deploying

offensive military capabilities to

prevent a scenario like this

ever happening again they now have

deployed

thousands of missiles on the mainland

that would be able to attack and sync

our carriers

or destroyers if we replayed the same

hand

in another taiwanese scenario so if i

were in the pentagon

today and we had a scenario like this i

would be very reluctant to recommend

what we recommended at that time so we

should with chinese

now today be sitting down vigorously

exploring how can we prevent this going

where we don’t want it to go

a second idea is even a little wilder

this would involve

inventing a whole new strategic

rationale

and combining two big ideas

one comes from ancient china

in the relationship between the sun

dynasty

and the liao which is about a thousand

years ago

and the second from john kennedy when he

after the cuban missile crisis

having been terrified by the prospect of

killing hundreds of millions of people

decided we had to change what we were

doing

so here in 2005

the liao and the sun agreed to have a

rivalry partnership

they would be fierce rivals in one arena

and partners in the other arena

that sounds like a contradiction but it

gave them 120 years of peace

what kind of a peace do i mean and what

kind of a peace do we seek

not a pax americana enforced in the

world by american weapons of war

and if we cannot end now our differences

at least we can help make the world

safe for diversity for in the final

analysis our most basic

common length is that we all inhabit

this small planet

we all breathe the same air we all

cherish our children’s future

and we are all mortal so could we

imagine

putting these two ideas together having

a rivalry partnership

in a world safe for diversity in which

americans would

compete to show that a freedom-based

democracy can better deliver what people

want

and the chinese can compete to show that

a party-led autocracy

can better deliver what people want we

compete in one arena

but in other arenas for example

preventing getting dragged to war

are trying to deal with a climate which

if each of us emits greenhouse gases

makes an unsustainable biosphere

managing the global economy

and financial crises this sounds like a

contradiction

but lo and behold in the business world

this is not that strange

so life is often more complex than

diplomacy apple

and samsung have a strange relationship

they

compete and cooperate together they sell

smartphones apple uh used to be the

dominant

cell phone supplier samsung has

overtaken it

so samsung the largest supplier

cellphone

but samsung is also the biggest supplier

of apple

so how can your fiercest competitor be

also your

biggest supplier on whom you’re

dependent

the answer is life can be complicated so

i’m thinking

this this is this is an interesting

arena

so there’s two uh small or modest

items on the list of nine i’m hoping

some of you will be able to add to the

list so

thank you very much

[Applause]

[音乐]

[音乐]

两天前我

在中国度过了紧张的一周,从飞机上下来,

如果我看起来倒时差,对我大喊大叫,

我会醒来的,

我有机会与政府领导人交谈并听取

政府领导人的意见

学院智库商界

和我可以向您报告,

北京的

人们几乎和华盛顿的人一样困惑,

并试图从华盛顿的角度了解到底发生了什么

所以从华盛顿的角度来看

,这个被

一代人视为朋友的国家 即使是

战略伙伴

现在也被正式归类为

战略对手

奥巴马总统和在他之前的

布什总统和克林顿总统

试图融入国际

社会

的国家现在被视为

威胁国际秩序的破坏者所以发生了什么

我要做的

是尽我所能澄清我认为正在

发生的事情

,最重要的是,

我们应该做些什么来防止这个故事

发生这种竞争 h 我们

在以前的历史中经常看到,

像我们这样的人可以做些什么

来帮助思考这个问题所以

我要做的是首先做三件事

我要提出一个

我要解决的大想法

一个棘手的难题

,我要提出一个主要的

挑战,大的想法是 thrucidity 表带

现在我知道 thucydides 是一个拗口的

多音节

有些人很难发音

所以这个人是谁

thucydides 我们如何发音他的名字一

二三 修昔底德

又一次 修昔底德 所以如果

今天没有别的事你可以发推文或发帖

你遇到了一位伟大的思想家 你可以

说出他的名字 他是修昔底德

他是历史的父亲和创始人

他写了第一本

关于

古典希腊发生的事情的历史书 大约

2500 年前

,修昔底德陷阱是

我几年前创造的一个术语,目的是让

修昔底德洞察力生动,所以修昔底德的洞察力

是,当像

今天的雅典或中国这样的崛起大国威胁要

取代统治大国时

就像今天的斯巴达或美国一样

,它创造了一种危险的动态,

经常以战争结束,真正血腥的

毁灭性战争,然后通过城市的

著名路线

,是雅典的崛起和对

斯巴达灌输的恐惧

使战争不可避免,所以这就是

清醒和修昔底德 陷阱

现在首先我想对这个陷阱发表评论

我觉得很难因为我什

至不知道它的名字如何发音

带修昔底德陷阱 修

昔底德陷阱

如果它是疾病陷阱

修昔底德陷阱 好吧 所以通过修昔底德陷阱已经进入

血液 你现在知道谁是

修昔底德了,什么

是我书中的清醒表带 我回顾了过去 500 年

的历史,我发现了 16 个案例

16 次崛起的大国威胁要

取代统治大国

12 个案例以战争告终,其中

4 个案例在

例如,

当西班牙

在克里斯托弗·哥伦布(christopher columbus)时代与葡萄牙抗衡时,

这场战争以没有战争而告终。我们与

苏联

之间的竞争 冷战没有以

没有成千上万人被战斗人员杀害的战争而告终

所以说我们和中国之间的战争

在这种情况下是不可避免

的是错误的,但说这很

可能是正确的,这是最大的

惊喜

之一 在这项研究过程中,我

想到的是,在大多数情况下

,崛起国和统治国都

不想打一场战争,在少数情况下,

战争

是由崛起国或统治国发起的,

那么这是如何发生的? 答案

这种竞争造成了一定

程度的误解和

误解

,使双方都容易受到外部

冲击的影响,

一些第三方的行动甚至是

事故

,然后其他领域之一

不得不做出反应,

从而引发螺旋式反应,

将他们

拖到一个地方 他们不想去

经典案例 这是第一次世界大战

在这种情况下发生了什么,所以 1914 年

英国是世界上的主导力量

100 年来

一直是一个帝国 太阳永不

落山

拥有一支统治海浪 100 年的海军

德国正在迅速增长,其国民经济

在 1900 年左右超过英国,但英国

德国都不想

在这种情况下相互开战 1914 年 6 月

一名塞尔维亚刺客 恐怖分子

暗杀弗朗茨·斐迪南大公

只是一个意外

我们在匈牙利的皇帝觉得有义务惩罚

塞尔维亚人俄罗斯人呃感觉有义务

来支持

这个塞尔维亚人是呃正统

基督徒法国人尊重他们与俄罗斯人的军事

条约 英国人已经卷入

了法国,

因此在六周内所有国家都

陷入了一场大火中

,在这场大火中,2500 万人

埋葬

了 2500 万人,

而在法兰德斯

地区,诗人尖锐地指出了这一点,您

可以自己阅读

小狗

从这里开始长出三个外卖 你

不必为了战争而

想要战争 你可能对战争不感兴趣,

但是 r 可能对你感兴趣

其次在世界大战结束时

赢得

了答案的人是没有人每个人都失去了

每一位领导人都失去了他

最关心的东西

所以奥匈帝国

试图维系他的帝国

帝国解散了 俄国

沙皇,

他的整个政权都

被布尔什维克

德皇推翻了,法国

流血了整整一代人的青春,

从来没有真正复苏,因为一个大国

,几个世纪以来一直是债权国的英国

变成了债务国,并且在缓慢

下降 从他们没有

恢复的情况中,

所以每个人都输了,战后第三次

关键人物

之一,德国总理

贝特曼被一位同事问到你们是

如何让这种情况发生的

,他说得很有名,

如果我们知道的

话 保持这种想法啊,如果我们只知道

约翰肯尼迪经历过类似的

危机,

就像 1914 年发生的那样,

人类历史上最危险的危机是

古巴导弹

1962年的危机。在这种情况下

,肯尼迪和

赫鲁晓夫发生了对峙,苏联领导人肯尼迪

认为,有三分之一的机会

以核战争告终

,幸好会杀死

数亿人

就在两个月

前危机爆发前,他在假期

阅读了芭芭拉·图奇曼 (barbara tuchman) 的精彩小

书,

名为“一战世界八月之

枪”

,他下定决心,

如果我们在导弹危机期间知道这一点,他就会被贝特曼的台词所困扰,

他一直在寻找 在他的肩膀上

担心他没有尽

他所能做的一切

来防止这

是导致第三次世界大战的十月导弹,

导致数亿人死亡

,它确实可以这样做所以

做什么做什么做什么

自从三年前我把这本书寄给出版商以来,我一直在追寻

如何逃离城市的陷阱

到目前为止我已经确定了九种可能

的逃生途径

每个人都有优点和缺点,

他们似乎都没有引人注目,

所以我希望今天能得到一些

进一步的想法,我想要 10

11 12 13,即使你在

考虑它,请给我发电子邮件

第一个实际上来自

我去年 10 月第一次说的演讲的观众

这是一位女士,她是谈判的学生

,她首先在电子邮件中对我说,

然后

在谈判理论的对话中有时一个好的

技巧

是把 问题在桌子的一边,

而在谈判的人在

桌子的另一边,

所以把问题外部化,找出

修昔底德陷阱

和它造成的

将双方拖入战争的脆弱性

作为问题,然后看看双方

如何工作 为了很好地防止这种情况

发生,

我首先在这里建议的

是,现实主义地认识

到中国将要采取的系统性结构压力所带来的脆弱性

崛起,我们将成为统治者

,这将是摩擦,所以要

认识到

这是一场真正的竞争,会产生巨大的

风险,

其次问问自己,我们能做些什么来

防止危机

,这可能会拖累我们在我的最高层与两者开战

现在的名单是台湾

和朝鲜,第三个承认

即使我们尽了最大的努力

,仍然会有危机,我们应该

为危机做好准备,以应对危机,

因此为危机管理做好准备,台湾

是一个特别危险的局势

,你” 未来 10 个月将听到更多关于他们即将举行

总统

选举的消息 两位主要候选人现在

正在为台湾争取更大的独立性

中国认为台湾

是中国大陆不可改变的不可分割的一部分

中国决心与之抗争

为了防止台湾独立

实际上我们在 1996 年之前就看过这个故事

我在五角大楼担任

助理国防部长

一个台湾人 总统

迈向独立

的小步,中国政府猛烈回应

,用导弹包围

该岛,导致前往

台湾岛屿经济生命线的船只停止前进,

因为当时的军事平衡

压倒性地有利于

美国 五角大楼很乐意

向克林顿总统推荐

,我支持这一点,克林顿

决定将两艘美国航空母舰开进

中国被迫后退的地区

从那天到今天,中国一直在

部署

进攻性军事能力

防止这种

情况再次发生,他们现在已经

在大陆部署了数千枚导弹,

如果我们

在另一个台湾场景中重演同一只手,它们将能够攻击和同步我们的航母或驱逐舰,所以如果我

今天在五角大楼

,我们 有这样的场景我

会非常不愿意推荐

我们的 当时推荐,所以我们

今天应该和中国人坐下来积极

探讨如何防止这种情况

发生在我们不希望它发生的

地方第二个想法甚至有点疯狂,

这将涉及

发明一个全新的战略

原理

并结合 两大理念,

一是来自于一千年前

的太阳王朝与辽国关系的古代中国

,二是约翰·肯尼迪在

古巴导弹危机

后因害怕杀死数亿人的前景而感到恐惧

。 人们

决定我们必须改变我们正在

做的事情,

所以在 2005 年

,廖和太阳同意建立

竞争伙伴关系,

他们将在一个领域成为激烈的竞争对手,在另一个领域成为

合作伙伴,

这听起来很矛盾,但它

给了他们 120 年

我的意思是什么

样的和平,我们寻求什么样的和平

不是

美国战争武器在世界上强加的美国和平

,如果我们可以 现在还没有结束 我们的分歧

至少我们可以帮助世界

为多样性而安全 因为

归根结底 我们最基本的

共同长度是我们都居住在

这个小星球上

我们都呼吸着同样的空气 我们都

珍惜我们孩子的

未来 我们都是 凡人所以我们

可以想象

将这两个想法放在一起在

一个安全的多样性世界中建立竞争伙伴关系,

在这个世界中,

美国人将

竞相展示基于自由的

民主可以更好地满足人们的

需求

,而中国人可以竞相

展示政党- 领导专制

可以更好地满足人们的需求 我们

在一个领域竞争,

但在其他领域,例如

防止被拖入战争,

正试图应对一种气候,

如果我们每个人都排放温室气体,

就会导致不可持续的生物圈

管理全球经济

和金融危机 这听起来很

矛盾,

但你瞧,在商业世界中,

这并不奇怪,

所以生活往往比 d 更复杂

iplomacy 苹果

和三星的关系很奇怪

他们

一起竞争和合作 他们卖

智能手机 苹果呃曾经是

主要的

手机供应商 三星已经

超过了它

所以三星是最大的供应商

手机

但三星也是苹果的最大供应商 那

你最凶 竞争对手

也是你

最大的供应商,你所

依赖

的答案是生活可能很复杂,所以

我认为

这是一个有趣的

领域,

所以在九个列表中有两个呃小的或适度的

项目我希望

有一些 你们中的人将能够添加到

列表中,

非常感谢你们

[鼓掌]