The unpaid work that GDP ignores and why it really counts Marilyn Waring

(In Maori: My mountain is Taupiri.)

(Waikato is my river.)

(My name is Marilyn.)

(Hello.)

As you’ve heard, when I was very young,

I was elected to
the New Zealand Parliament.

And at that age, you learn mostly
by listening to others' stories.

I remember a woman
who’d been injured in a farm accident,

and it was coming up to shearing time

on the farm,

and she had to be replaced by a shepherd,

by a rousie in the woolshed,

and of course there was still someone
needed to manage the household

and to prepare the food
for the shearing gangs.

And her mother came to help with that.

But the family got
no compensation for the mother,

because that’s what mothers
and family members are supposed to do.

One year, a company called
Gold Mines New Zealand

applied for a prospecting license
on our beautiful Mt. Pirongia.

It is a mountain

full of extraordinary ecosystems,

of verdant, virgin native forests.

It produced oxygen, it was a carbon sink,

it was a home for endangered species
and for pollinating species

in the farmland around.

And the mining company put up
this great economic prospectus

that was about how much
money could be made

from mining our mountain,

about all the growth and development

that would show in New Zealand’s
budgetary forecasts,

and we were just left with the language

of all that we valued about our mountain.

Fortunately, we stopped.

And then I remembered

a woman who had three children under five

who was caring for her elderly parents,

and nobody seemed to think
that at some stage

she might actually need
some assistance with childcare,

because she wasn’t in the paid workforce.

And there began to be a pattern
in all of these stories I was being told.

And I started to ask enough questions

to try and track to the core
of this pattern of values

that was part of all of these stories.

And I found it

in an economic formula
called the “gross domestic product,”

or the GDP.

Most of you will have heard of it.

Many of you won’t have any idea
what it actually means.

The rules were drawn up
by Western-educated men in 1953.

They established a boundary of production

in drawing up these rules.

What they were keen to measure

was everything that involved
a market transaction.

So on one side of the boundary,

everything where there was
a market exchange was counted.

It doesn’t matter whether
the exchange is legal or illegal.

Market exchange in the illegal trade
in armaments, [munitions],

drugs, endangered species,

trafficking of people –

all of this is great for growth

and it all counts.

On the other side
of the boundary of production,

there was this extraordinary
phrase in the rules

that the work done by the people
they called “nonprimary producers”

was “of little or no value.”

So I thought, let’s see how many
nonprimary producers we have here today.

So in the last week or so,

how many of you have transported
members of your household or their goods

without payment?

How many of you have done
a bit of cleaning, a bit of vacuuming,

a bit of sweeping,
a bit of tidying up the kitchen?

Yeah?

How about going shopping
for members of the household?

Preparing food? Cleaning up afterwards?

Laundry? Ironing?

(Laughter)

Well, as far as economics is concerned,

you were at leisure.

(Laughter)

(Applause and cheers)

Now, how about the women

who have been pregnant
and who have had children?

Yes.

Now, I really hate to tell you this,

because it might well
have been hard labor,

but at that moment, you were unproductive.

(Laughter)

And some of you may
have breastfed your infant.

Now, in the New Zealand
national accounts –

that’s what the figures are called,
that’s where we get the GDP –

in the New Zealand national accounts,

the milk of buffalo, goats, sheep and cows

is of value

but not human breast milk.

(Laughter)

It is the very best food on the planet.

It is the very best investment
that we can make in the future health

and education of that child.

It doesn’t count at all.

All of those activities are on
the wrong side of the production boundary.

And something that’s
very important to know

about this accounting framework:

they call it “accounts,”

but there’s no debit side.

We just keep market exchanges going,

and it’s all good for growth.

We’re in Christchurch,

where people have lived through
a devastating natural disaster

and recovered.

And ever since that time,

New Zealand has been told

our growth figures are great,
because we’re rebuilding Christchurch.

Nothing was ever lost

from the national accounting framework

because of the loss of lives,

the loss of land,

the loss of buildings,

the loss of special spaces.

Now, it might also
be becoming obvious to you

that this boundary of production works
in terms of our environment.

When we’re mining it,

when we’re deforesting,

when we’re deleting our environment,

when we’re fishing out
our marine resources,

legal or illegal,

as long as market is exchanged,
it’s all good for growth.

To leave our natural environment alone,

to sustain it, to protect it,

is apparently worth nothing.

Now, how and what can we do about this?

Well, I wrote first about it 30 years ago.

Then in 2008, after
the global financial crisis,

President Sarkozy of France

asked three men who had all
won Nobel Prizes in Economics –

Sen, Fitoussi and Stiglitz –

to discover what I’d written about

30 years ago.

(Laughter)

(Applause)

“Relying on per capita GDP, relying
on these growth figures,” they said,

“doesn’t appear to be
the best way to proceed

to make public policy.”

And I totally agree with them.

(Laughter)

One of the things that you notice
about these rules –

they are revised; 1968
they were revised, 1993, 2008 –

is that the revisions
are mostly done by statisticians,

and the statisticians do know
what is wrong with the data,

but hardly any of the economists
ever stop to ask that same question.

So, in 2019,

the GDP is in even worse shape.

You see, to measure GDP,

you have to assume
that some kind of production

or service delivery or consumption

occurs inside a nation-state,

and you know where that is.

But trillions of dollars
are circling the globe,

in many part from our Googles,
our Facebooks, our Twitters,

siphoned through a number of tax shelters,

so that when we click on our computer

and go to download some software,

we don’t know where it was produced,

and frankly, no one knows where we are
as we’re consuming it, either.

These tax-free havens

distort the GDP to such an extent

that about three years ago,

Europe looked askance at Ireland

and said, “We don’t think
you’re reporting correctly,”

and in the next year,
their GDP went up 35 percent.

Now, all that work that you’re doing

when you were at leisure and unproductive,

we can measure this,

and we can measure this
in time use surveys.

When we look at the amount
of time that’s taken

in the unpaid sector,

what we find is that in almost every
country where I’ve ever seen the data,

it is the single largest sector
of the nation’s economy.

In the last three years, for example,

the UK statistician has declared

that all of that unpaid work
is the equivalent of all manufacturing

and all retailing in the UK.

In Australia,

the single largest sector of Australia’s
economy is unpaid childcare,

and the second-largest sector
is all the rest of the unpaid work,

before banking and insurance
and financial intermediation services

clock in at the largest part
of the market sector.

Just last year, the Premier
of the Victoria state of Australia

declared that half of that state’s GDP

was, in fact, the value
of all the unpaid work.

Now, as a policy maker,

you cannot make good policy

if the single largest sector
of your nation’s economy

is not visible.

You can’t presume to know
where the needs are.

You can’t locate time poverty.

You can’t address
the most critical issues of need.

So what can go in the place of GDP?

Well, GDP has got many other problems, OK?

We don’t behave in a way that assists GDP.

Large numbers of people around the planet

are now using household assets –
their cars, their homes, themselves –

for Uber, for Airbnb.

And no, we’re not supposed to use
assets from the unpaid sector

to make money in the market sector.

This is confusing!

(Laughter)

And very difficult to measure.

So economists don’t want to know

what’s wrong with their
most important GDP,

and I think they’ve got so many problems,
they can just move off to a quiet corner

and continue to publish that

and not come anywhere near the rest of us

with this talk of capitals

and natural assets

and other ways in which to colonize
the rest of our lives.

I think time use is the most important
indicator going forward.

Every one of us has exactly
the same amount of it.

If there are going to be critical issues
as we move forward,

we need a solid database,

because whatever we change
away from the GDP,

we’re going to be stuck with it
for about 50 years,

and we need something
that’s solid and immutable

and that everybody understands,

because if I put
time use data in front of you,

you’ll immediately start nodding.

You’ll immediately start
recognizing what it means.

And, honestly,

if I put the GDP data in front of you,

a lot of you would prefer
to leave for morning tea.

(Laughter)

We also need to be looking
at the quality of our environment.

As every year goes past,
we get much better

at measuring the devastation of it,

of measuring how little
we protect anymore.

And yet, with climate change,

we don’t all have to be scientists
to see, to feel, to know

what is happening to our beautiful planet.

We need, in this country,

the paramountcy of what we can learn
from kaitiakitanga,

from whanaungatanaga,

from what Maori, who have been here
for centuries, can teach us.

When you’re in parliament,

and you’re not in
an economist’s frame of mind,

you make decisions across a range of data.

You look at the trade-offs.

You think deeply about implications

way beyond whether or not
GDP is up or down.

Economists want to turn everything
into a monetary exchange,

even time use data,

so that they can carry on
trying to decide

whether GDP is up or down.

That’s not a great way to go.

And others have said to me,

“Marilyn, why don’t you
just work on a system

that includes all the unpaid work

and the pregnancy
and the birth and the lactation

in the GDP?”

There’s a very important
moral and ethical answer to that,

and it is that I do not want
the most valuable things on earth,

the things I treasure,

sitting in an accounting framework
that thinks that war is great for growth.

(Applause and cheers)

So from now on,

whenever you listen to the news,

you’re not going to go blank
when they say GDP.

You’re going to think,

“I know what they’re talking about,
and it’s not good.”

(Laughter)

I know that there are alternatives,

and I’m going to spend my time
correcting people,

talking to them about this value base

and talking to them about
what the alternatives can be,

because humankind

and our planet

need another way.

Thank you.

(Applause and cheers)

(毛利语:我的山是陶皮里。)

(怀卡托是我的河。)

(我的名字是玛丽莲。)

(你好。)

正如你所听说的,当我很小的时候,

我被
选为新西兰议会议员。

在那个年龄,你主要
通过听别人的故事来学习。

我记得有一个
女人在农场事故中受伤,农场

剪毛时间快到了

,她不得不被一个牧羊人取代,

被一个在羊毛棚里的鲁西取代

,当然还有人
需要管理家庭


为剪毛团伙准备食物。

她的母亲来帮忙。

但家人
没有得到母亲的补偿,

因为那是母亲
和家人应该做的。

一年,一家名为
Gold Mines New Zealand 的公司

申请
了我们美丽的 Mt. Pirongia 的勘探许可证。

这是一座

充满了非凡生态系统

、青翠原始森林的山。

它产生氧气,是碳汇

,是濒危物种

周围农田授粉物种的家园。

这家矿业公司提出
了一份很棒的经济招股说明书

,内容是关于

开采我们的山可以赚多少钱,

关于

新西兰预算预测中将显示的所有增长和发展

而我们只剩

下了所有的语言 我们重视我们的山。

幸运的是,我们停了下来。

然后我想起

了一个女人,她有三个五岁以下的孩子,

她正在照顾年迈的父母

,似乎没有人
认为在某个阶段

她可能真的需要
一些照顾

孩子的帮助,因为她没有从事有薪工作。

在我被告知的所有这些故事中,开始有一种模式。

我开始问足够多的问题

来尝试追踪
这种价值观模式的核心,

它是所有这些故事的一部分。

在一个
叫做“国内生产总值”

或 GDP 的经济公式中找到了它。

你们中的大多数人都会听说过它。

你们中的许多人都不
知道它的实际含义。

这些规则
是1953年由受西方教育的人

制定的。他们

在制定这些规则时建立了生产界限。

他们热衷于衡量的


涉及市场交易的一切。

因此,在边界的一侧,

所有
有市场交易的地方都被计算在内。

交换是合法还是非法都没有关系。

军备、[军火]、

毒品、濒危物种、

人口贩运的非法贸易中的市场交换——

所有这些都对增长非常有利

,而且都很重要。


生产边界的另一边,规则中

有这样一个不同寻常的
短语,

他们称之为“非初级生产者”

的人所做的工作“没有价值或没有价值”。

所以我想,让
我们看看我们今天有多少非初级生产者。

那么在过去一周左右的时间里,有

多少人在没有付款的情况下运送
了您的家庭成员或他们的货物

你们有多少人
做过一点清洁,一点吸尘

,一点清扫
,一点整理厨房?

是的?

为家庭成员购物怎么样?

准备食物? 事后清理?

洗衣店? 熨烫?

(笑声)

好吧,就经济学而言,

你很闲。

(笑声)

(掌声和欢呼)

现在,

那些怀孕
生子的女人呢?

是的。

现在,我真的不想告诉你这个,

因为这很
可能是一项艰苦的工作,

但在那一刻,你没有生产力。

(笑声)

你们中的一些人可能
已经母乳喂养了你的婴儿。

现在,在新西兰的
国民账户中——

这就是所谓的数字,
这就是我们得到国内生产总值的地方——

在新西兰的国民账户中,

水牛、山羊、绵羊和奶牛的奶

是有价值的,

但人乳没有 .

(笑声)

它是地球上最好的食物。


是我们可以对孩子未来的健康

和教育做出的最好的投资。

这根本不算数。

所有这些活动都在
生产边界的错误一侧。

了解这个会计框架
非常重要的

一点是:

他们称之为“账户”,

但没有借方。

我们只是保持市场交易的进行

,这对增长都有好处。

我们在基督城,

那里的人们经历
了毁灭性的自然灾害

并康复了。

从那时起,

新西兰就被告知

我们的增长数据非常好,
因为我们正在重建基督城。

由于生命

的损失、土地

的损失、建筑物

的损失、特殊空间的损失,国民核算框架中没有任何损失。

现在,
对您

来说,这种生产边界
在我们的环境中起作用也可能变得越来越明显。

当我们开采它时,

当我们砍伐森林时,当我们在

破坏我们的环境时,

当我们在捕捞
我们的海洋资源时,

无论是合法的还是非法的,

只要交换市场,
这对增长都是有利的。

不理会我们的自然环境

,维持它,保护它,

显然一文不值。

现在,我们该怎么做?

好吧,我在 30 年前首先写过它。

然后在 2008 年
,全球金融危机之后,

法国总统萨科齐

请三位曾
获得诺贝尔经济学奖的人——

森、菲图西和斯蒂格利茨——

来看看我在 30 年前写的东西

(笑声)

(掌声)

“依靠人均GDP,
依靠这些增长数据,”他们说,


似乎不是制定公共政策的最佳方式

。”

我完全同意他们的看法。

(笑声) 关于这些规则

,你注意到的一件事
——

它们被修改了;
1968 年,1993 年,2008 年——修改

主要由统计学家完成

,统计学家确实知道数据有
什么问题,

但几乎没有经济学家
停下来问同样的问题。

因此,在 2019 年

,GDP 的状况更加糟糕。

你看,要衡量 GDP,

你必须
假设某种生产

或服务交付或消费

发生在一个民族国家内部

,你知道那在哪里。

但是数万亿美元
正在全球运行

,其中大部分来自我们的谷歌、
我们的 Facebook、我们的推特,

从一些避税处吸走了,

所以当我们点击我们的电脑

并下载一些软件时,

我们不知道 它是在哪里生产的

,坦率地说,也没有人知道我们在
哪里消费它。

这些免税天堂

严重扭曲了 GDP,

以至于大约三年前,

欧洲对爱尔兰

表示怀疑并说:“我们认为
你的报告不正确”,

而在接下来的一年里,
它们的 GDP 增长了 35 百分。

现在,

您在闲暇和非生产性时所做的所有工作,

我们都可以

衡量,我们可以
通过时间使用调查来衡量。

当我们查看在无偿部门花费
的时间时,

我们发现几乎
在我见过数据的每个国家,

它都是
该国经济中最大的单一部门。

例如,在过去三年中,

英国统计学家宣布

,所有这些无偿
工作相当于英国的所有制造业

和所有零售业。

在澳大利亚,

澳大利亚经济中最大的单一部门
是无偿儿童保育

,第二大部门
是所有其他无偿工作,

之后银行和保险
以及金融中介服务成为市场

部门的最大部分

就在去年,
澳大利亚维多利亚州州长

宣布,该州一半的

GDP 实际上
是所有无偿工作的价值。

现在,作为政策制定者,

如果
您国家经济中最大的单一部门

不可见,您就无法制定好的政策。

你不能假设
知道需求在哪里。

你找不到时间贫困。


无法解决最关键的需求问题。

那么什么可以代替GDP呢?

那么,GDP还有很多其他问题,好吗?

我们的行为方式不利于 GDP。 现在

,全球有大量的人

正在使用家庭资产——
他们的汽车、他们的房子、他们自己——

为优步、Airbnb 服务。

不,我们不应该使用
无偿部门的资产

在市场部门赚钱。

这令人困惑!

(笑声)

而且很难衡量。

所以经济学家不想知道

他们最重要的 GDP 出了什么问题

,我认为他们有很多问题,
他们可以转移到一个安静的

角落继续发布,

而不是靠近我们其他人

谈论资本

和自然资产

以及
殖民我们余生的其他方式。

我认为时间使用是未来最重要的
指标。

我们每个人的
数量完全相同。

如果在
我们前进的过程中遇到关键问题,

我们需要一个可靠的数据库,

因为无论我们如何
改变 GDP,

我们都会
坚持大约 50 年

,我们需要
一些可靠且不可变的东西

并且每个人都明白,

因为如果我把
时间使用数据放在你面前,

你会立即开始点头。

您将立即开始
认识到它的含义。

而且,老实说,

如果我把 GDP 数据放在你们面前,你们中

的很多人宁愿
去喝早茶。

(笑声)

我们还需要关注
我们的环境质量。

随着每一年的过去,
我们

在衡量它的破坏性

,衡量
我们保护的程度方面变得更好。

然而,随着气候变化,

我们不必都是科学家
才能看到、感受、知道

我们美丽的星球正在发生什么。

在这个国家,我们需要

从 kaitiakitanga、whanaungatanaga 以及已经在这里生活
了几个世纪的毛利人可以教给我们的最重要的东西。

当你在议会中,


不是经济学家的心态时,

你会根据一系列数据做出决定。

你看看权衡。

您深入思考的

影响远远超出了
GDP 是上升还是下降。

经济学家想把一切都
变成货币交换,

甚至时间使用数据,

这样他们就可以继续
尝试

决定 GDP 是上升还是下降。

这不是一个好方法。

其他人对我说,

“玛丽莲,你为什么不
建立

一个将所有无偿工作

、怀孕
、分娩和哺乳都

纳入 GDP 的体系?” 对此

有一个非常重要的
道德和伦理答案

,那就是我不想要
地球上最有价值的东西,

我珍惜的东西,

坐在一个
认为战争对增长有好处的会计框架中。

(掌声和欢呼)

所以从现在开始,

每当你听新闻,当他们说GDP时,

你就不会空白了

你会想,

“我知道他们在说什么
,但这并不好。”

(笑声)

我知道还有其他选择

,我将花时间
纠正人们,

与他们讨论这个价值基础,

并与他们讨论
替代方案可能是什么,

因为人类

和我们的星球

需要另一种方式。

谢谢你。

(掌声和欢呼)