Actually the world isnt flat Pankaj Ghemawat

[Music]

I’m here to talk to you about how

globalized we are how globalized we

aren’t and why it’s important to

actually be accurate in making those

kinds of assessments and the leading

point of view on this whether measured

by number of books sold mentions in

media or surveys that I’ve run with

groups ranging from my students to

delegates to the World Trade

Organization is this view that national

borders really don’t matter very much

anymore cross-border integration is

close to complete and we live in one

world and what’s interesting about this

view is again it’s a view that’s held by

pro globalizers like Tom Friedman from

whose book this quote is obviously

excerpted but it’s also helped by anti

globalizes who see this giant

globalization tsunami that’s about to

wreck all our lives if it hasn’t already

done so the other thing I would add is

that this is not a new view I’m a little

bit of an amateur historian so I spent

some time going back trying to see the

first mention of this kind of thing and

the best earliest quote that I could

find was one from David Livingstone

writing in the 1850s about how the

railroad the steamship and the Telegraph

were integrating East Africa perfectly

with the rest of the world

now clearly David Livingstone was a

little bit ahead of his time but it does

seem useful to ask ourselves just how

global are we before we think about

where we go from here so the best way I

found of trying to get people to take

seriously the idea that the world may

not be flat may not even be close to

flat is with some data so one of the

things I’ve been doing over the last

few years is really compiling data on

things that could either happen within

national borders or across national

borders and I’ve looked at the

cross-border component as a percentage

of the total I’m not going to present

all the data that I have here today but

let me just give you a few data points

I’m going to talk a little bit about one

kind of information flow one kind of

flow of people one kind of flow of

capital and of course trade in products

and services so let’s start off with

plain old telephone service of all the

voice calling minutes in the world last

year what percentage do you think were

accounted for by cross-border phone

calls pick a percentage in your own mind

answer turns out to be 2 percent if you

include Internet telephony you might be

able to push this number up to six or

seven percent but it’s nowhere near what

people tend to estimate or let’s turn to

people moving across borders one

particular thing we might look at in

terms of long term flows of people is

what percentage of the world’s

population is accounted for by

first-generation immigrants again please

pick a percentage turns out to be a

little bit higher it’s actually about 3%

or think of investment take all the real

investment that went on in the world in

2010 what percentage of that was

accounted for by foreign direct

investment not quite 10 percent and then

finally the one statistic that I suspect

many of the people in this room have

seen the export to GDP ratio if you look

at the official statistics they

typically indicate a little bit above 30

percent however there’s a big pro

with the official statistics in that if

for instance a Japanese component

supplier ships something to China to be

put into an iPod and then the iPod gets

shipped to the US that component ends up

getting counted multiple times so nobody

knows how bad this bias with the

official statistics actually is so I

thought I would ask the person who’s

spearheading the effort to generate data

on this bus calamy the director of the

World Trade Organization what his best

guess would be of exports as a

percentage of GDP without the double and

triple counting and it’s actually

probably a bit under 20 percent rather

than the 30 percent plus numbers that

we’re talking about so it’s very clear

that if you look at these numbers or all

the other numbers that I talked about in

my book world 3.0 that we’re very very

far from the no border effect benchmark

which would imply internationalization

levels of the order of 85 90 95 percent

so clearly apocalyptically minded

authors have overstated the case but

it’s not just the apocalyptic s– as i

think of them who are prone to this kind

of overstatement I’ve also spent some

time serving audiences in different

parts of the world on what they actually

guessed these numbers to be let me share

with you the results of a survey that

Harvard Business Review was kind enough

to run of its readership as to what

people’s guesses along these dimensions

actually were so a couple of

observations stand out for me from this

slide first of all there is a suggestion

of some error

second these are pretty large errors for

four quantities whose average value is

less than 10% you have people guessing

three four times that level even though

I’m an economist I find that a pretty

large error and third this is not just

confined to the readers of the Harvard

Business Review I’ve run several dozen

such surveys in different parts of the

world and in all cases except one where

a group actually underestimated the

trade to GDP ratio people have this

tendency towards over estimation and so

I thought it important to give a name to

this and that’s what I refer to as

global oniy the difference between the

dark blue bars and the light gray bars

especially because I suspect some of you

may still be a little bit skeptical of

the claims I think it’s important to

just spend a little bit of time thinking

about why we might be prone to global

oniy couple of different reasons come to

mind first of all there’s a real dearth

of data in the debate let me give you an

example when I first published some of

these data a few years ago in a magazine

called foreign policy one of the people

who wrote in not entirely an agreement

was Tom Friedman and since my article

was titled why the world isn’t flat that

wasn’t too surprising what was very

surprising to me was Tom’s critique

which was game ‘ow it’s data are narrow

and this caused me to scratch my head

because as I went back through his

several hundred page book I couldn’t

find a single figure chart table

reference or footnote so my point is I

haven’t presented a lot of data here to

convince you that I’m right but I would

urge you to go away and look for your

own data to try and actually assess

whether some of this

these hand-me-down insights that we’ve

been bombarded with actually are correct

so dearth of data in the debate is one

reason a second reason has to do with

peer pressure I remember I decided to

write my why the world isn’t flat

article because I was being interviewed

on TV and Mumbai and the interviewers

first question to me was Professor

Ghemawat why do you still believe that

the world is round and I started

laughing

because I hadn’t come across that

formulation before and as I was laughing

I was thinking I really need a more

coherent response especially a national

TV I’d better write something about this

but what I can’t quite capture for you

was the pity and disbelief with which

the interviewer asked her question the

perspective was here is this poor

professor he’s clearly been in a cave

for the last 20,000 years he really has

no idea as to what’s actually going on

in the world so try this out with your

friends and acquaintances if you like

you’ll find that it’s very cool to talk

about the world being one etc if you

raise questions about that formulation

you really are considered a bit of an

antique and then the final reason which

I mentioned especially to a TED audience

with some trepidation has to do with

what I call techno trances if you listen

to techno music for long periods of time

it does things to your brainwave

activity something similar seems to

happen with exaggerated conceptions of

how technology is going to overpower in

the very immediate run all cultural

barriers all political barriers all

Geographic barriers because at this

point I know you aren’t allowed to ask

me questions but when I get to this

point in my lecture with my students

hands go up and people ask

yeah but what about Facebook and I got

this question often enough that I

thought I’d better do some research on

Facebook because in some sense it’s the

ideal kind of technology to think about

theoretically makes it as easy to form

friendships halfway around the world as

opposed to right next door

what percentage of people’s friends on

Facebook are actually located in

countries other than where people we’re

analyzing our based the answer is

probably somewhere between 10 to 15% not

negligible so we don’t live in an

entirely local or national world but

very very far from the 95% level that

you would expect and the reason is very

simple we don’t or I hope we don’t form

friendships at random on Facebook there

the technology is overlaid on a

pre-existing matrix of relationships

that we have and those relationships are

what the technology doesn’t quite

displace those relationships are why we

get far fewer than 95% of our friends

being located in countries other than

where we are so does all this matter or

is global Oni just a harmless way of

getting people to pay more attention to

globalization related issues I want to

suggest that actually global Oni

can be very harmful to your health

first of all recognizing that the glass

is only 10 to 20 percent full it’s

critical to seeing that there might be

potential for additional gains from

additional integration whereas if we

thought we were all dirty there there

would be no particular point to pushing

harder it’s a little bit like we

wouldn’t be having a conference on

radical openness if we already thought

we were totally open to all the kinds of

influences that are being talked about

at this conference

so being accurate about how limited

globalization levels are is critical to

even being able to notice that there

might be room for something more

something that would contribute further

to global welfare which brings me to my

second point avoiding overstatement is

also very helpful because it reduces and

in some cases even reverses some of the

fears that people have about

globalization so I actually spend most

of my world 3.0 book working through a

litany of market failures and fears that

people have that they worry

globalization is going to exacerbate I’m

obviously not going to be able to do

that for you today so let me just

present to you two headlines as an

illustration of what I have in mind

think of France and the current debate

about immigration when you ask people in

France what percentage of the French

population is immigrants the answer is

about 24% that’s their guess maybe

realizing that the number is just 8%

might help cool some of the superheated

rhetoric that we see around the

immigration issue or to take an even

more striking example when the Chicago

Council on Foreign Relations did a

survey of Americans asking them to guess

what percentage of the federal budget

went to foreign aid the guess was 30%

which is slightly in excess of the

actual level of u.s. governmental

commitments to federal aid the

reassuring thing about this particular

survey was when it was pointed out to

people how far their estimates were from

the actual data some of them not all of

them seem to become more willing to

consider increases in foreign aid so the

foreign aid is actually a great way of

sort of wrapping up here because if you

think about it what I’ve been talking

about

today is this notion very

uncontroversial amongst economists that

most things are very home biased foreign

aid is the most aid to poor people is

about the most home biased thing you can

find if you look at the OECD countries

and how much they spend per domestic

poor person and compare it with how much

they spend per person per poor person in

poor countries the ratio

Branko Milanovic at the World Bank that

the calculations turns out to be about

thirty thousand to one now of course

some of us if we truly are cosmopolitan

would like to see that ratio being

brought down to one is to one I’d like

to make the suggestion that we don’t

need to aim for that to make substantial

progress from where we are if we simply

brought that ratio down to fifteen

thousand to one we would be meeting

those aid targets that were agreed at

the Rio summit 20 years ago that the

summit that ended last week made no

further progress on so in summary while

radical openness is great given how

closed we are even incremental openness

could make things dramatically better

thank you very much

[Applause]

[Music]

[音乐]

我来这里是想和你谈谈

我们是多么全球化,我们

还没有多么全球化,为什么

在进行

这些评估时要准确无误以及

是否以书籍数量来衡量这一点的主要观点

我与

学生、

世界贸易

组织的代表等团体进行的媒体或调查中出售的提及是这样一种观点,即

国界真的不再那么重要

了跨境一体化

即将完成,我们生活在 一个

世界,这种观点的有趣之

处再次在于,它是像汤姆弗里德曼这样的亲全球化者所持有的观点,

这句话显然是从他的书中

摘录的,但它也得到了反

全球化者的帮助,他们看到这场巨大的

全球化海啸即将

摧毁我们的生活,如果 它还没有

完成,所以我要补充的另一件事是

,这不是一个新

观点 第一次提到这种事情

,我能找到的最好的

最早引述是大卫利文斯通

在 1850 年代写的一篇关于

铁路、轮船和电报

如何将东非

与世界其他地方完美结合的文章,

现在显然大卫利文斯通是

比他的时代早了一点,但在我们思考我们从这里去哪里之前

,问问自己我们的全球化程度似乎很有用,

所以我发现的最好的方法

是试图让人们

认真对待这个世界可能没有的想法

持平可能甚至不会接近

持平是有一些数据,所以

我在过去几年里一直在做

的事情之一就是收集

可能发生在

国界内或跨越

国界的事情的数据,我已经看过了 在

跨境部分占总数的百分比

我不打算展示

我今天在这里的所有数据,但

让我给你几个数据点,

我将谈谈一个

k 信息流

一种人流 一种

资本流,当然还有产品

和服务贸易 所以让我们从

去年世界上所有语音通话分钟数的普通电话服务开始

你认为百分比是多少

由跨境电话占到

的百分比 在您自己的脑海中选择一个

百分比 如果您

将互联网电话包括在内,您可能

可以将这个数字推高到 6

% 或 7%,但它与

人们倾向于估计的相差甚远 或者让我们

转向跨境流动的人

,从长期人口流动的角度来看,我们可能会考虑的一个特别的事情

第一代移民占世界人口

的百分比再次请选择一个百分比原来是一

点点 更高,实际上约为 3%

或考虑

投资 2010 年世界上发生的所有实际投资,其中

外国直接投资占了多少百分比 t

投资不到 10%,

最后是一个统计数据,我怀疑在座的

许多人已经

看到了出口与 GDP 的比率,如果你

查看官方统计数据,他们

通常表明略高于 30

%,但是有一个很大的专业人士

官方统计数据是,例如,如果

日本组件

供应商将某些东西运到中国

放入 iPod,然后 iPod

运到美国,该组件最终会

被计算多次,所以没有人

知道这种对官方的偏见有多严重

统计数据实际上是

这样的 实际上

可能略低于 20%,而

不是我们正在谈论的 30% 以上的数字,

所以很明显

,如果你看 t 这些数字或

我在

《世界 3.0》一书中谈到的所有其他数字,我们

离无边界效应基准非常非常远,

这意味着国际化

水平达到 85% 90 95%,

因此显然具有世界末日思想的

作者夸大了 情况,

但不仅仅是世界末日——当我

想到那些

容易夸大其词的人时,我还花了一些

时间为

世界各地的观众提供他们实际

猜测的这些数字让我分享

与您一起获得一项调查的结果,该调查结果表明《

哈佛商业评论》非常友好

地向其读者询问

人们对这些方面的猜测

实际上是什么所以

从这张幻灯片中我发现了一些观察结果

首先有

一些建议 错误

第二,对于平均值小于 10% 的四个量,这是相当大的错误,

即使我是经济学家,您也有人猜测该水平的三

四倍 omist 我发现这是一个相当

大的错误,第三,这不仅

限于《哈佛

商业评论》的读者我已经

在世界不同地区进行了数十次这样的调查

,在所有情况下,除了

一个群体实际上低估了

贸易的情况 人们

倾向于高估,所以

我认为给这个命名很重要

,这就是我所说的

全球唯一

深蓝色条和浅灰色条之间的区别,

特别是因为我怀疑你们中的一些人

可能仍然对这些说法持怀疑态度

我认为

花一点时间

思考为什么我们可能容易出现全球性问题很重要

唯一想到的几个不同的原因

首先 辩论 让我举个

例子,几年前我第一次

在一本名为外交政策的杂志上发表这些数据时,

其中一个

写不完全协议的人

是汤姆 F riedman,因为我的文章

的标题是为什么世界不是平的,

这并不

奇怪,让我感到非常惊讶的是汤姆的

批评是游戏,因为它的数据很窄

,这让我摸不着头脑,

因为我去 翻阅他

几百页的书,我

找不到一个图表

参考或脚注,所以我的意思是我

没有在这里提供很多数据来

说服你我是对的,但我会

敦促你走开 并寻找您

自己的数据来尝试并实际评估

我们被轰炸的这些传统见解中的一些是否

真的正确,

因此辩论中缺乏数据是一个

原因,第二个原因与

同行有关 压力我记得我决定

写我为什么世界不是平的

文章因为我

在电视和孟买接受采访而采访者

问我的第一个问题是 Ghemawat 教授

你为什么仍然

相信世界是圆的我开始

因为 我 以前没有遇到过这个

提法,当我笑的时候,

我在想我真的需要一个更

连贯的回应,尤其是国家

电视台

面试官问她问题的

观点是这个可怜的

教授

在过去的 20,000 年里他显然一直在一个山洞里他真的

不知道世界上到底发生了什么

所以如果你的

朋友和熟人试试这个 你喜欢

你会发现

谈论世界是一个等

非常酷的 与

我所说的技术恍惚有关,如果您

长时间听技术音乐,

它会对您的脑电波

活动产生影响

技术将如何

在最直接的运行中压倒一切的看法 所有文化

障碍 所有政治障碍 所有

地理障碍 因为在这

一点上我知道你不被允许问

我问题但是当我

在与我的学生的讲座中达到这一点时

举起手来,人们问

是的,但是 Facebook 呢?我

经常被问到这个问题,所以我

想我最好在 Facebook 上做一些研究,

因为从某种意义上说,这是

一种理想的技术,

理论上可以让它很容易形成

世界

另一端的朋友,而不是隔壁

的朋友 Facebook 上人们的朋友中有多少百分比

实际上位于

我们正在分析的人以外的国家 我们所

基于的答案

可能在 10% 到 15% 之间,不可

忽略,所以我们不会 生活在一个

完全地方或国家的世界中,但

与您所期望的 95% 水平相去甚远

,原因很

简单,我们没有,或者我希望我们没有形成

Facebook 上随机的友谊 那里

的技术覆盖在

我们现有的关系矩阵上,而这些关系

是技术并没有完全

取代这些关系的原因,这就是为什么

我们得到的朋友远少于 95% 的

原因所在 除了我们所在的国家以外的其他国家

,这一切都很重要,

或者全球 Oni 只是一种

让人们更加关注

全球化相关问题的无害方式 我想

建议的是,实际上全球 Oni

可能对您的健康非常有害,

首先要认识到

玻璃杯只有 10% 到 20% 满了,

关键是要看到额外的集成可能会

带来额外的收益,

而如果我们

认为我们都很脏,那么

就没有特别的意义来

推动它,这有点像我们

不会的。

如果我们已经认为

我们对正在谈论的所有类型的影响完全开放

,就不会举行一场关于激进开放的会议

在本次

会议上,准确地了解

全球化水平的有限程度对于

甚至能够注意到

可能有更多的空间来做

一些可以进一步

促进全球福利的事情至关重要,这使我想到了我的

第二点,避免夸大其词

也是非常有帮助的,因为 它减少了,

在某些情况下甚至扭转了

人们对

全球化的一些恐惧,所以我实际上花

了我的世界 3.0 书的大部分时间来处理

一连串的市场失灵和人们担心

全球化会加剧的恐惧。

显然

今天无法为您做到这一点,所以让我

向您展示两个头条新闻,以

说明我

对法国的看法以及

当您询问法国人占法国人的百分比时当前关于移民的辩论

人口是移民 答案是

大约 24% 这是他们的猜测 也许

意识到这个数字只有 8%

可能有助于冷却一些人 我们在移民问题上看到过过热的

言论,

或者举一个

更引人注目的例子,当时芝加哥

外交关系委员会对美国人进行了

一项调查,要求他们猜测

联邦预算中有多少百分比

用于外援,猜测是 30%

略高于

我们的实际水平 政府

对联邦援助的承诺

关于这一特定调查,令人欣慰的

是,当人们向人们指出

他们的估计与实际数据相差多远时,他们中

的一些人并非

所有人似乎都更愿意

考虑增加外援,因此

外 援助实际上是一种很好的结束方式,

因为如果你

考虑一下,我今天一直在谈论的

是这个概念

在经济学家中非常没有争议,因为

大多数事情都是非常偏向于国内的 外国

援助是对穷人的最大援助是

关于最偏向家庭的事情,

如果你看看经合组织国家

,他们每个国内

穷人的支出,并将其与贫困国家的

每个穷人的人均支出进行比较,

世界银行的布兰科米拉诺维奇的比率是

现在计算结果是大约

三万比一

n 比 1 比 1

20 年前在里约

峰会上商定的目标 上周结束的峰会在这方面没有取得

进一步进展 总而言之,

鉴于我们的封闭程度,激进的开放性

很好 ] [音乐]