On being wrong Kathryn Schulz

[Music]

[Applause]

so it’s 1995 I’m in college and a friend

and I go on a road trip from Providence

Rhode Island to Portland Oregon

you know we’re young and unemployed so

we do the whole thing on back roads

through state parks and national forests

basically the longest route we can

possibly take and somewhere in the

middle of South Dakota I turned to my

friend and I asked her a question that’s

been bothering me for 2,000 miles what’s

up with the Chinese character I keep

seeing by the side of the road my friend

looks at me

totally blankly actually a gentleman in

the front row who’s doing a perfect

imitation of her look and I’m like you

know all the signs we keep seeing with

the Chinese character on them she just

stares at me for a few moments and then

she cracks up because she figures out

what I’m talking about and what I’m

talking about is this

right the famous Chinese character for

picnic area I have spent the last five

years of my life thinking about

situations exactly like this why we

sometimes misunderstand the signs around

us and how we behave when that happens

and what all of this can tell us about

human nature in other words that you

heard Kris say I’ve spent the last five

years thinking about being wrong

this might strike you as a strange

career move but it actually is one great

advantage no job competition in fact

most of us do everything we can to avoid

thinking about being wrong or at least

to avoid thinking about the possibility

that we ourselves are wrong you know we

get it in the abstract we all know

everybody in this room makes mistakes

the human species in general is fallible

okay fine but when it comes down to me

right now to all the beliefs I hold here

in the present tense suddenly all of

this abstract appreciation of phal

ability goes out the window

and I can’t actually think of anything

I’m wrong about and the thing is you

know the present tense is where we live

we go to meetings in the present tense

we go on family vacations in the present

tense we go to the polls and vote in the

present tense so effectively we all wind

up kind of traveling through life sort

of trapped in this little bubble of

feeling very right about everything I

think this is a problem I think it’s a

problem for each of us as individuals in

our personal and professional lives and

I think it’s a problem for all of us

collectively as a culture so what I want

to do today is first of all talk about

why we get stuck inside this feeling of

being right and second why it’s such a

problem and finally I want to convince

you that it is possible to step outside

of that feeling and that if you can do

so it is the single greatest

moral intellectual and creative leap you

can make so why do we get stuck in this

feeling of being right one reason

actually has to do with the feeling of

being wrong so let me ask you guys

something

actually let me ask you guys something

cuz you’re right here how does it feel

emotionally how does it feel to be wrong

dreadful thumbs down embarrassing okay

wonderful great dreadful thumbs down

embarrassing

thank you these are great answers but

their answers to a different questions

you guys are answering the question how

does it feel to realize you’re wrong

realizing you’re wrong can feel like all

of that and a lot of other things right

I mean it can be devastating it can be

revelatory it can actually be quite

funny like my stupid Chinese character

mistake but just being wrong doesn’t

feel like anything I’ll give you an

analogy you remember that

Looney Tunes cartoon where there’s this

kind of pathetic coyote who’s always

chasing and never catching a roadrunner

in pretty much every episode of this

cartoon there’s a moment where the

coyote is chasing the roadrunner and the

roadrunner runs off the cliff which is

fine he’s a bird he can fly but the

thing is the coyote runs off the cliff

right after him and what’s funny at

least if you’re you know six years old

is that the coyote is totally fine too

he just keeps running right up into the

moment that he looks down and realizes

that he’s in midair that’s when he falls

when we’re wrong about something that

when we realize it but before that we’re

like that coyote after he’s gone off the

cliff and before he looks down you know

we’re already wrong we’re already in

trouble

but we feel like we’re on solid ground

so I should actually correct something I

said a moment ago it does feel like

something to be wrong it feels like

being right

so this is one reason a structural

reason why we get stuck inside this

feeling of rightness I call this error

blindness you know most of the time we

don’t have any kind of internal cue to

let us know that we’re wrong about

something until it’s too late

but there’s a second reason that we get

stuck inside this feeling as well and

this one is cultural think back for a

moment to elementary school you’re

sitting there in class and your teacher

is handing back quiz papers and one of

them looks like this this is not mine by

the way so there you are in grade school

and you know exactly what to think about

the kid who got this paper that’s the

dumb kid the troublemaker the one who

never does his homework so by the time

you are nine years old you’ve already

learned first of all the people who get

stuff wrong are lazy irresponsible

dimwits and second of all that the way

to succeed in life is to never make any

mistakes we learn these really bad

lessons really well and a lot of us and

I suspect especially a lot of us in this

room deal with them by just becoming

perfect little a student’s

perfectionists overachievers right mr.

CFO astrophysicist ultra marathoner

you’re all CFO astrophysicists

ultramarathon as it turns out okay so

that’s so fine right accept it then we

freaked out at the possibility that

we’ve gotten something wrong because

according to this getting something

wrong means there’s something wrong with

us so we just insist that we’re right

because it makes us feel smart and

responsible and virtuous and safe so let

me tell you a story a couple of years

ago a woman comes into Beth Israel

Deaconess Medical Center for surgery

Beth Israel’s in Boston it’s the

teaching hospital for Harvard one of the

best hospitals in the country so this

woman comes in and she’s taken into the

operating room she’s anesthetized the

surgeon does his thing stitches her back

up sends her out to the recovery room

everything seems to gone fine and she

wakes up and she looks down at herself

and she says why is the wrong side of my

body and bandages well the wrong side of

her body is and bandages because the

surgeon has performed a major operation

on her left leg instead of her right one

when the vice president for healthcare

quality at Beth Israel spoke about this

incident he said something very

interesting he said for whatever reason

the surgeon simply felt that he was on

the correct side of the patient the

point of this story is that trusting too

much in the feeling of being on the

correct side of anything can be very

dangerous

this internal sense of rightness that we

all experience so often is not a

reliable guide to what is actually going

on in the external world and what we act

like it is and we stop entertaining the

possibility that we could be wrong

well you know that’s when we wind up

doing things like dumping 200 million

gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico

or torpedoing the global economy so this

is a huge practical problem but it’s

also a huge social problem

think for a moment about what it means

to feel right it means that you think

that your beliefs just perfectly reflect

reality and when you feel that way

you’ve got a problem to solve which is

how are you going to explain all of

those people who disagree with you it

turns out most of us explain those

people the same way by resorting to a

series of unfortunate assumptions the

first thing we usually do when someone

disagrees with us is we just assume

they’re ignorant you know they don’t

they don’t have access to the same

information that we do and when we

generously share that information with

them they’re gonna see the light and

come on over to our team when that

doesn’t work when it turns out those

people have all the same facts that we

do and they still disagree with us let

me move on to a second assumption which

is that they’re idiots if all the right

pieces of the puzzle and they are too

moronic to put them together correctly

and when that doesn’t work when it turns

out that people who disagree with us

have all the same facts we do and are

actually pretty smart then we move on to

a third assumption

they know the truth and they are

deliberately distorting it for their own

malevolent purposes so this is a

catastrophe

this attachment to our own rightness

keeps us from preventing mistakes when

we absolutely need to and causes us to

treat each other terribly but you know

to be what’s most baffling and most

tragic about this is it this is the

whole point of being human you know it’s

like we want to imagine that our minds

are just these perfectly translucent

windows and we just kind of gaze out of

them and describe the world as it

unfolds and we want everybody else to

gaze out of the same window and see the

exact same thing that is not true and if

it were life would be incredibly boring

the miracle of your mind isn’t that you

can see the world as it is it’s that you

can see the world as it isn’t we can

remember the past and we can think about

the future and we can imagine what it’s

like to be some other person in some

other place and we all do this a little

differently which is why we can all look

up at the same night sky and see this

and also this and also this and yeah you

know it is also why we get things wrong

twelve hundred years before Descartes

said his famous thing about I think

therefore I am

this guy st. Augustine sat down and

wrote faller ergo soon I err therefore I

am Augustine understood that our

capacity to screw up is it’s not some

kind of you know embarrassing defects in

the human system something we can

eradicate or overcome

it’s totally fundamental to who we are

because unlike God we don’t really know

what’s going on out there

and unlike all of the other animals we

are obsessed with trying to figure it

out

to me this obsession is the source and

root of all of our productivity and

creativity you know last year

various reasons I found myself listening

to a lot of episodes of the public radio

show this American life I’m sure a lot

of you know it and so I’m listening and

I’m listening and at some point I start

feeling like all the stories are about

being wrong and my first thought was

I’ve lost it

you know I’ve become the crazy wrongness

lady I just imagine it everywhere which

has happened but but a couple of months

later I actually had a chance to

interview Ira Glass who’s the host of

the show and I mentioned this to him and

he was like no you know actually that’s

true in fact he says as a staff we joke

that every single episode of our show

has the same Krypto theme and the Krypto

theme is I thought this one thing was

gonna happen and something else happened

instead and the thing is says Ira Glass

we need this we need these moments of

surprise and reversal and wrongness to

make these stories work and for the rest

of us as audience members as listeners

as readers we eat this stuff up you know

we love things like plot twists and red

herrings and surprise endings when it

comes to our stories we love being wrong

but you know our stories are like this

because our lives are like this we think

this one thing is gonna happen and

something else happens instead George

Bush thought he was going to invade Iraq

find a bunch of weapons of mass

destruction liberate the people and

bring democracy to the Middle East and

something else happened instead and

Hosni Mubarak thought he was going to be

the dictator of Egypt for the rest of

his life until they got too old or too

sick and could pass the reins of power

on to his son and something else

happened instead and maybe you thought

you were going to grow up and marry your

high school sweetheart and move back to

your hometown and raise a bunch of kids

together and something else happened

instead and I have to tell you that I

thought I was writing an incredibly

nerdy book about a subject everybody

hates for an audience that would never

materialize

and something else happened instead I

mean this is life you know for good and

for ill we generate these incredible

stories about the world around us and

then the world turns around and

astonishes us I mean no offense but this

entire conference is an unbelievable

monument to our capacity to get stuff

wrong we just spent an entire week

talking about innovations and

advancements and improvements but you

know why we need all of those

innovations and advancements and

improvements because a half the stuff

that seemed most mind-boggling and world

altering it you know Ted 1998

didn’t really work out that way did it

no like where’s my jetpack trous so here

we are again and that’s how it goes we

come up with another idea we tell

another story we hold another conference

the theme of this one as you guys have

now heard seven million times is the

rediscovery of Wonder and to me if you

really want to rediscover Wonder you

need to step outside of that tiny

terrified space of rightness and look

around at each other and look out at the

vastness and complexity and mystery of

the universe and be able to say wow I

don’t know maybe I’m wrong thank you

thank you guys

you

[音乐]

[掌声

] 现在是 1995 年,我在上大学,和一个朋友

一起从

罗德岛普罗维登斯到俄勒冈州波特兰进行公路旅行,

你知道我们还年轻而且失业,所以

我们在

穿越州的小路上做所有事情 公园和国家森林

基本上是我们可以走的最长的路线

,在

南达科他州中部的某个地方我转向我的

朋友,我问了她一个问题,这个问题

一直困扰着我 2000 英里,

我一直

在旁边看到的汉字是怎么回事 在路上我的朋友

完全茫然地看着我实际上

是前排的一位绅士,他正在完美

模仿她的样子,我就像你

知道我们看到的所有

带有汉字的迹象,她只是

盯着我看 片刻,然后

她崩溃了,因为她

明白我在说什么,我在

说的就是这个

野餐区的著名汉字 我在生命的最后五年里一直在

思考

情景 就像这样,为什么我们

有时会误解我们周围的迹象,

以及当这种情况发生时我们的行为方式

以及所有这些可以告诉我们关于

人性的什么,换句话说,你

听到克里斯说我过去五年一直在

思考错误

这可能会让你觉得这是一个奇怪的

职业转变,但它实际上是一个很大的

优势 没有工作竞争 事实上

,我们大多数人都会尽我们所能避免

思考错误,或者

至少避免思考

我们自己错了的可能性,你知道 我们

以抽象的形式得到它 我们都

知道这个房间里的每个人都会

犯错误 人类一般都会犯错误

好吧 好吧 但是当它现在归结为

我在这里以现在时持有的所有信念

时 突然间所有

这些抽象的欣赏

phal 能力消失了

,我实际上想不出

我错了什么,问题是你

知道现在时态是我们住的地方

我们现在去开会 时态

我们以现在时态去家庭度假

我们去民意调查并以

现在时态投票 如此有效地结束 我们都结束

了生活中的旅行

有点被困在这个

对每件事都感觉非常正确的小泡泡中 我

认为这是一个 问题我认为这

对我们每个人作为

个人和职业生活中的个人

来说都是一个问题,我认为这对我们所有人作为一种文化来说都是一个问题,

所以我

今天想做的首先是谈谈

为什么我们会被困在里面 这种感觉

是正确的,其次是为什么这是一个

问题,最后我想说服

你,有可能

跳出这种感觉,如果你能

做到,这是你能做到的最伟大的

道德智慧和创造性飞跃

为什么我们会陷入这种

正确的感觉中一个原因

实际上与错误的感觉有关

所以让我问你们

一些事情

实际上让我问你们一些事情

因为你们就在这里怎么样

情感上的感觉 错误的感觉如何

可怕的大拇指向下 尴尬 好的

很棒 很棒 可怕的大拇指向下

尴尬

谢谢你 这些是很好的答案,但是

他们对不同问题

的回答 你们正在回答这个问题

意识到自己错了感觉如何

意识到你错了 感觉

所有这一切和很多其他事情都是对的

我的意思是这可能是毁灭性的 它可能是

启示性的 它实际上可能

像我愚蠢的汉字错误一样很有趣,

但只是错了不会

有什么感觉 我给你

打个比方,你记得

乐一通卡通里有

这种可怜的土狼,

在这部卡通的几乎每一集中

都在追逐,却从来没有抓到

过路行者 下悬崖

很好,他是一只可以飞的鸟,但

问题是土狼

在他身后跑下悬崖,至少有什么好笑的

如果你知道 6

岁那只土狼也完全没问题

他只是一直跑到

他低头并

意识到他在半空中的

那一刻当我们对某件事有误时他会摔倒

意识到这一点,但在那之前,我们

就像那只郊狼,在他掉下

悬崖之后,在他往下看之前,你知道

我们已经错了,我们已经

陷入困境,

但我们觉得我们站在坚实的基础上,

所以我实际上应该纠正 我

刚才说过的事情确实

感觉是错误的感觉就像

是对的

所以这是

我们陷入这种

正确感觉的结构性原因之一我称之为错误

盲目你知道大多数时候我们

不知道 没有任何内部暗示

让我们知道我们在

某件事上错了,直到为时已晚,

但还有第二个原因让我们也

陷入这种感觉,

这是文化回想

一下小学你

坐着 在课堂上,你的老师

正在交回测验试卷,其中一张

看起来像这样

,顺便说一句,这不是我的,所以你在小学

,你确切地知道该怎么想得到

这张纸的孩子,那是

愚蠢的孩子 麻烦制造者

从不做作业的人所以到

你九岁的时候你已经

学会了首先

犯错的人是懒惰不负责任的

笨蛋其次

人生成功的方法是永远不要 犯任何

错误,我们都很好地吸取了这些非常糟糕的

教训,我们中的很多人,

我怀疑在这个房间里的我们中的很多人,尤其是在这个

房间里的很多人,都是通过成为完美的小学生来处理这些错误的

首席财务官天体物理学家超级马拉松运动员

你们都是首席财务官天体物理学家

超级马拉松运动员,结果还好,

所以这很好接受它然后我们

吓坏了我们可能出错的可能性,

因为

根据

这个出错意味着

我们有问题 所以我们坚持认为我们是对的

因为这让我们觉得自己很聪明 有

责任感 有道德 有安全感 所以让

我告诉你一个故事 几年

前一个女人进入贝丝以色列

女执事医疗中心做手术

贝丝以色列在波士顿

哈佛教学

医院是全国最好的医院之一,所以这个

女人进来了,她被带进了

手术室,她麻醉了,

外科医生做了他的事情,缝合了她的

背部,把她送到了康复室,

一切似乎都很好,她

醒来了 站起来,她低头看着自己

,她说为什么我

身体的另一侧和绷带很好

她身体的另一侧是和绷带,因为 使用

外科医生

在她的左腿而不是右腿上进行了一次大手术

贝丝以色列的医疗质量副总裁谈到这一

事件时,他说了一些非常

有趣的话 他说无论出于何种

原因,外科医生只是觉得他

在 患者正确的一面

这个故事的重点是,过分相信

自己

站在任何事情正确的一面可能是非常

危险的,

这种我们都经常体验到的内在正确

感并不是

了解实际情况的可靠指南

在外部世界中发生的事情以及我们的行为

方式,我们不再接受

我们可能犯错的可能性,

你知道那是我们最终会

做一些事情,比如向墨西哥湾倾倒 2 亿

加仑石油

或用鱼雷炸毁全球 经济,所以这

是一个巨大的实际问题,但它

也是一个巨大的社会问题,

想想

感觉正确意味着什么,这意味着你

认为你 你的信念完美地反映了

现实,当你有这种感觉时,

你有一个问题要解决,

你将如何解释所有

不同意你的人,

结果我们大多数

人都以同样的方式解释这些人,诉诸 对于

一系列不幸的假设,

当有人

不同意我们的观点时,我们通常做的第一件事就是假设

他们是无知的 你知道他们不知道 他们

无法获得与我们相同的

信息,并且当我们

慷慨地分享这些信息时 向

他们提供信息 他们会看到曙光并

在这不起作用时来到我们的团队

当事实证明这些

人拥有与我们相同的所有事实但

他们仍然不同意我们让

我继续前进

假设他们是白痴,如果所有正确

的拼图都是白痴,而且他们太

愚蠢而无法正确地将它们组合在一起

,当事实

证明不同意我们的人

拥有我们所做的所有相同事实时,这不起作用 并且是

实际上非常聪明,然后我们继续

进行第三个假设,

他们知道真相,并且

为了自己的恶意目的而故意歪曲它,

所以这是一场

灾难,

这种对自己正确性的依恋

使我们无法在

绝对需要并导致我们的错误时防止错误

可怕地对待彼此,但你

知道最令人困惑和最

悲惨的是,这

就是作为人类的全部意义你知道这

就像我们想想象我们的思想

只是这些完全半透明的

窗户,我们只是有点 凝视

他们并描述世界的

展开,我们希望其他人

凝视同一扇窗外,

看到不真实的完全相同的事情,

如果生活会令人难以置信的

无聊,那么你的心灵奇迹就不会 你

可以看到世界的本来面目 你

可以看到世界的本来面目 我们可以

记住过去,我们可以

思考未来,我们可以想象

成为其他人的感觉 r 人在

其他地方,我们都做这件事有点

不同,这就是为什么我们都可以

仰望同一个夜空,看到这个

,还有这个,还有这个,是的,你

知道这也是为什么我们会出错

一千二百 几年前笛卡尔

说了他著名的关于我认为

因此我是

这个人的事情。 奥古斯丁坐下来,

很快就写下了faller ergo,我错了,因此

我是奥古斯丁,明白我们

搞砸的能力

不是你们知道的人类系统中令人尴尬的缺陷,

我们可以

根除或克服

它,这对我们来说是完全基础的,

因为不像 上帝,我们真的不

知道外面发生了什么

,与所有其他动物不同,

我们痴迷于试图

向我弄清楚这种痴迷

是我们所有生产力和创造力的源泉和根源,

你知道去年

各种原因 我发现自己

听了很多关于美国生活的公共广播

节目我相信

你们很多人都知道,所以我在听,

我在听,在某个时候,我开始

觉得所有的故事都是

关于犯错,我的第一个想法是

我已经失去了它

你知道我已经成为疯狂的错误

女士我只是想象它无处不在,

但几个月

后我实际上有机会

介入 查看节目主持人艾拉·格拉斯(Ira Glass)

,我向他提到了这一点,

他就像不知道,实际上这是

真的,事实上他说作为工作人员,我们开玩笑

说我们节目的每一集

都有相同的 Krypto 主题和 Krypto

主题 是不是我以为这件事

会发生,而另一件事却发生了

,事情是说艾拉·格拉斯(Ira Glass)

我们需要这些我们需要这些

惊喜、逆转和错误的时刻来

使这些故事发挥作用,

对于我们其他作为听众的观众来说

作为读者,我们把这些东西吃光了,你知道

我们喜欢情节曲折、红

鲱鱼和令人惊讶的结局,当

谈到我们的故事时,我们喜欢犯错,

但你知道我们的故事是这样的,

因为我们的生活是

这样的 会发生,但会发生

其他事情,而不是乔治·

布什认为他要入侵伊拉克

找到一堆大规模杀伤性武器

解放人民,

给中东带来民主

等等 相反,发生了其他事情,

胡斯尼穆巴拉克认为他将在他

的余生中成为埃及的独裁者,

直到他们变得太老或太

病并且可以将权力

传递给他的儿子并且发生了其他

事情,也许你 以为

你会长大,嫁给你的

高中恋人,搬回

你的家乡,一起抚养一群孩子

,结果却发生了其他事情

,我不得不告诉你,我

以为我正在写一

本关于一个主题的令人难以置信的书呆子书 每个人都

讨厌一个永远不会实现的观众,

而是发生了其他事情

整个会议都是我们犯错能力的令人难以置信的

纪念碑

我们刚刚花了整整一周的时间

谈论创新、

进步和改进 s 但你

知道为什么我们需要所有这些

创新、进步和

改进,因为有一半

看起来最令人难以置信和改变世界的

东西你知道 Ted 1998

并没有真正做到这一点,它

不像我的喷气背包裤子在哪里 所以

我们又来了,事情就是这样发展的

要重新发现奇迹,你

需要走出那个小小的、

恐惧的正确空间,环顾

四周,看看宇宙的

浩瀚、复杂和神秘,

并且能够说哇我

不知道也许我错了 谢谢

谢谢你们